NN/G UX Podcast

Most UX practitioners have spent their careers fighting for the user — pushing back against dark patterns, advocating for quality, and insisting that making things better for people is also better for the business. Eric Ries would say that instinct is exactly right. And that it's not enough.

In this episode, host Laura Klein talks with Eric Ries — New York Times Best Selling Author of The Lean Startup and founder of the Long Term Stock Exchange — about his new book, Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad...and How Great Companies Stay Great. Eric makes the case that most of today's business best practices are actively value-destroying, and that the builders, designers, and makers who already believe product quality matters are more revolutionary than they realize — they just lack the tools to protect that belief inside their organizations.

They dig into the history of shareholder primacy, why corporate governance is something every practitioner should understand, and the very specific questions you can ask in a job interview to find out whether a company is genuinely mission-driven or just mission-hopeful.

What does it actually mean to design conversationally? Not "add a chatbot" — but genuinely apply the principles of human conversation to the systems we build?

In this episode, host Laura Klein sits down with Erika Hall, author of Conversational Design and Just Enough Research, to re-visit a topic that's only gotten more relevant since her book came out in 2018. They dig into why language has always been an important part of any interface, what the cooperative principle of conversation can teach us about interaction design, and how the current AI moment is muddying what "conversational" even means.

Erika also makes a sharp distinction between AI that solves real problems and AI that performs work — and offers a theory about why so many people are reaching for answer machines right now. Plus: why the best consulting advice is often just "you have to talk to each other," the role of domain expertise in getting anything useful out of an LLM, and what painting chickens has to do with learning to see.

Navigating the UX job market has always had its ups and downs, especially with AI reshaping the industry. In this episode, host Laura Klein sits down with Evan Sunwall, NN/G's Director of Self-Paced Training, to share candid advice for UX practitioners trying to actively job search or level up in today's competitive market. With nearly 19 years in the field as both a designer and a hiring manager, he has a lot to say about where the field is headed — no matter what stage you're at in your career.

That experience is also what shaped Evan's self-paced course on getting a job in UX, part of NN/G's new and growing library of practical, pre-recorded courses built around real skill gaps. Evan was one of the first to help develop the format — running experiments and prototypes to figure out what actually works for self-directed learners.

Evan also previews a companion course aimed at hiring managers and shares that he's looking for sharp instructors to help expand the library into new topics across research, design, and AI.

If you work in UX, you’ve probably heard the terms lean, Agile, and MVP more times than you can count. But knowing the terms doesn’t mean knowing how to make them work.

In this episode, Laura Klein, Principal Experience Specialist at NN/G, joins Therese Fessenden to talk about what Lean UX was really meant to accomplish — and how teams today can apply its principles without falling into common traps.

Listen as they discuss how Lean UX came about, the skill of zooming between product vision and interaction details, and why growing companies struggle to balance speed and consistency. Whether you’re working at a startup or inside a large enterprise, this episode offers a grounded look at how to design thoughtfully in fast-moving environments.

We’re also excited to have Laura join as the newest co-host of the NN/G UX Podcast. And many congratulations to the Fessenden family as they welcome a new addition to their family.

Therese Fessenden talks with design psychologist and product strategist Thomas Watkins (host of The Design Psychologist and Product-Led Growth Leaders) about why understanding the human mind is still a true superpower for designers, researchers, and product teams. They explore how products subtly shape our behavior and identity, why over-relying on templates and patterns can flatten experiences instead of differentiating them, the risks of personifying AI tools, and the practical ways practitioners can use psychology and AI together to automate the tedious parts of work while staying human-centered and creating products that truly fit into people’s lives.

As AI-powered tools flood the market promising quick evaluations and audits, the conversation zeroes in on a critical issue: the reliability of these tools. In this episode, co-hosts Therese Fessenden and NN/G VP Kate Moran sit down with Jamie Holst and Christian Holst, the co-founders of Baymard Institute, to examine the growing role of AI in UX analysis. The group discusses the risks of over-relying on AI—particularly for junior UX practitioners—and the deeper implications for professionalism in the field.

About the speakers:

The interest in “customer insights” is higher than ever, and more people are interested in both research insights and carrying out research on their own. But, who’s making sure research is done well? Therese sits down with Ned Dwyer, CEO and co-founder of Great Question, to talk about the balance between access and rigor in UX research. They discuss the need for democratization charters, how AI is reshaping research roles, and why enabling good research at scale is as much a cultural challenge as it is a technical one.

In this episode, Therese interviews Jay Dutta—Global Head of UX at Deutsche Bank about how designing at scale isn’t just about reaching millions, but about preserving depth: of empathy, culture, and context. With a career spanning Adobe, Flipkart, and MakeMyTrip, Jay reflects on why he’s drawn to complex, broken systems and how those environments offer the richest opportunities for impact. He discusses the importance of designing for the individual within vast systems, and how storytelling, risk-taking, and honoring human experiences can lead to more meaningful and scalable design solutions.

What does it really take to get hired in design today? In this episode, design recruiter and former product designer Hang Xu shares hard truths about what’s changed in hiring, why portfolios miss the mark, and how candidates can better align with what employers actually want. He also talks about his bold new project, OnlyFAANGs.design, where he documents his journey back into design from the recruiter’s seat.

Who do we really mean when we say “the user”? And who gets left out?

In this episode, Therese Fessenden chats with cultural anthropologists Mike Youngblood and Ben Chesluk, who are challenging overly narrow definitions of users in UX. They explore how systems thinking and anthropology can deepen our understanding of complex user ecosystems — and why rethinking “the user” is more important than ever.

About the speakers:

What does it mean to design experiences in a world where pixels are no longer the focus? In this episode, service design thought-leader and author Erika Flowers shares her thoughts on how designers must evolve as AI transforms the tools, processes, and expectations of our work. Erika shares lessons from her journey—spanning early web design, pioneering service blueprinting at Intuit, and orchestrating experiences at NASA—and offers a forward-looking take on why skills like facilitation, systems thinking, and storytelling will define the future of design.

AI can do more than it’s ever done… but there’s a lot of unfounded hype, especially when it comes to user research. When should you delegate tasks to AI? And when should you insist on keeping the human in the loop? In this episode, Therese Fessenden sits down with Alexander Knoll, co-founder of Condens, to discuss the strengths and limitations of AI tools for research, and the evolving role of the user researcher.

UX practitioners often struggle with shifting requirements and increasing product complexity, making it difficult to design intuitive experiences. Object-Oriented UX (OOUX) offers a structured approach to simplify digital products by focusing on core objects rather than pages or screens. Sophia Prater explains how this method improves usability, reduces inconsistencies, and streamlines collaboration across teams.

As AI continues to evolve, designers are increasingly finding themselves tasked with creating AI-powered experiences—often without prior experience in the space. In this episode, NN/g UX Specialist Caleb Sponheim discusses the current state of AI tools, what’s working (and what’s not), and how designers can position themselves to navigate this shift. We also explore what it really means to develop AI safely and how designers can play a role in ensuring ethical, user-friendly AI experiences.

As tech layoffs and budget cuts dominate the start of the year, UX teams are navigating a critical challenge: proving the value of research while doing more with less. In this episode, NN/g Director of Research Maria Rosala sits down with ResearchOps pioneer Kate Towsey to explore how ResearchOps can help teams think strategically about the impact and efficiency of their research.

Most experienced professionals in the industry will tell you that the best designs don't operate in a vacuum. Yet, most of our measurement approaches do. How do you know you're actually making a measurable impact toward users' long-term goals? Connor Joyce, author of the book, Bridging Intention to Impact, shares his thoughts on how to create and evaluate products that center on meaningful user outcomes.

Product-centric design can be an efficient way to design interfaces, but it can often lead to disjointed and poorly optimized customer journey experiences. Kim Flaherty shares her recent research into journey-centric design, and insights on how a journey-centric design practice can help organizations overcome product-centric challenges.

With AI developing rapidly, and AI policy often lagging behind, calls for responsible tech design and development are louder and more public than ever. In this episode, Paige Lord offers some insight into ways UX professionals can play a role in creating ethical AI products and services.

Learn more about Paige Lord:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thepaigelord/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@aiethicswithpaige

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@aiethicswithpaige

Substack: https://thepaigelord.substack.com/

Other related content:

Icons are popular components to incorporate into digital designs that can help simplify user experiences. But, not every icon is created equal. In this episode, Kate Kaplan shares the latest insights from her research on digital iconography which can be found in her new book, Digital Icons that Work.

Accessibility isn’t a novel concept, but in the realm of digital design, it's rare to find a product or service that's truly accessible to a broad audience with many needs. In this episode, Stéphanie Walter shares a bit about what got her interested in accessibility to begin with, what accessibility truly means in UX, some common misconceptions, and how designers can create more inclusive experiences.

“If you squint hard enough, every problem is a prioritization problem.” -Harry Max

UX professionals are often faced with the challenge of managing backlogged work and doing so with limited time, budget, and resources. In this episode, we chat with Harry Max about the common misconceptions with prioritization and how to get better at it over time.

Expanding into global markets is a key priority for companies in today's interconnected world. While many companies rely on translations for their digital platforms, this is just one aspect of effective global expansion. In this episode, we're joined by Feifei Liu, International UX Researcher at NN/g. She discusses the importance of cross-cultural research and its role in helping organizations effectively expand into international markets while honoring cultural values and practices.

In this episode, we dive into User Interviews with Steve Portigal, discussing their critical role in product development and design research. User interviews, a qualitative method, involve conversations with users to gather insights about their experiences, behaviors, and needs. We discuss the benefits of this approach, such as deep user empathy and informed decision making, alongside common challenges like bias and recruitment. Join us in understanding when to use user interviews and how to get the most out of them.

NN/g Articles & Training Courses

AI is changing faster than we can sometimes process and will likely do so for a while. The recent tech layoffs have also not spared UX professionals, adding to the uncertainty about our future roles in this rapidly changing environment. While there is still much we don't know about AI, Don Norman, co-founder of NN/g, and Sarah Gibbons, VP at NN/g, share their insights on the future roles of designers, encouraging professionals to think big in the wake of AI's advancements.

Related NN/g Articles & Training Courses

Wireframing is an incredibly useful design technique to flesh out conceptual ideas and communicate them to others. However, with the advent of powerful prototyping tools, some designers may think of these as irrelevant or outdated practices. Leon Barnard, Content Manager at Balsamiq and co-author of the book Wireframing for Everyone, discusses why he thinks wireframing is not only still relevant, but essential for maximizing creativity and innovative thinking.

We often talk about measuring progress, but it can sometimes be harder to do in practice than in theory, especially when you’re combining mixed research methods. However, some teams have managed to not only make sense of the data, but use it to make award-winning designs. In this episode we feature two members of Princeton University’s award-winning intranet team: Charlie Kreitzberg, Senior UX Advisor, and Christian Knoebel, Director Digital Strategy, and how they combined two frameworks: the 5D Rubric and pairLab, to bridge the gap between UX and product design.

Measuring a user experience can be intimidating at first, but it's an essential part of determining whether your work is moving in the right direction (and by how much). UX Master Certified Dr. John Pagonis shares his experiences from working with other organizations on measuring UX improvements and interpreting quantitative data.

Learn more about John Pagonis:

(But don't worry, we will still continue publishing future episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and many other platforms!)

Research with employees might sound easy in theory: you work in the same company as the people you need to observe or interview, and you might not even need to pay them for input. However, there's a bit more to it than meets the eye. In this episode, we feature UX Master Certified Angie Li, and she discusses what has helped her organize and run successful research with internal team members.

Members of our UX Master Certified community are applying UX principles to their work in a range of different ways. In this episode, we interview Thomas Wilson, Senior Principal Service Designer at United Healthcare and discuss what service design is and what makes it challenging and rewarding.

Building stakeholder relationships is no easy task but it is crucial for getting buy-in, aligning expectations and ultimately building trust. But, what even is a "stakeholder" and how do you know if you have good relationships built? In this episode, we feature a conversation between Samhita Tankala and Sarah Gibbons who discuss the challenges that come with stakeholder management and how to build successful relationships.

The importance of mentorship for personal and professional development is an often-discussed topic, yet it can be challenging to find a mentor or become a mentor yourself. In this episode, we feature a conversation between a mentee, NN/g’s Tim Neusesser, and his mentor, Travis Grawey. In this episode they discuss how mentorship has impacted both of their careers.

Have you ever wondered what it's like to usability test a video game? Or what goes on behind the scenes of gaming studios as they prepare for big release dates? In this episode, games user researcher Steve Bromley shares how he got into the field, and what makes games different from traditional user experiences.

If you ask experienced UX practitioners how to stay user-centric, you’ll inevitably hear something about the importance of customer journeys. However, as teams become more mature in their UX practices, the number of journeys being tracked and analyzed has been growing, sometimes faster than teams can manage, leading to scattered and uncoordinated redesign efforts. In this episode, we hear some tips about customer journey management from Kim Salazar of NN/g and Jochem van der Veer of TheyDo, a customer journey management platform.

Learn more about the episode guests:

The UX industry has recently seen what some call "unprecedented" shifts with layoffs and generative artificial intelligence rapidly changing how UX work is done. However, there have been similarly turbulent periods in tech, decades before. Dr. Jakob Nielsen reflects on the changes that have taken place over the near 25 years Nielsen Norman Group has been around, and discusses whether or not generative AI is just a phase or truly the next chapter of UX work.

With the recent surge in tech layoffs, a downsizing of UX labor means UX research is harder to do, meaning: research needs to be prioritized in really intentional ways. Discount inspection methods like expert reviews and heuristic evaluations can help identify high-priority design issues that need further research and design effort. In this episode, Evan Sunwall offers some insight into how to facilitate and communicate the results of these inspection methods. 

Building exceptional experiences usable by all is no easy feat. Focusing on what can be influenced and accepting what cannot be changed are two critical steps to crafting better products... and careers. We spoke with Ryan Hudson-Peralta, a principal experience designer at Rocket Homes, who often introduces himself as a "father, husband, international speaker, and designer... who just happens to be born without hands." Ryan shares a bit about his journey into the UX field, and how his mindset of curiosity and positivity allows him to create meaningful experiences with his designs and with his career.

How has the UX field changed over the years? What does the future of UX work look like if scope is wildly expanding? Will we be automated out of a job? What should teams do to ensure they’re not misinterpreting data? Kenya Oduor shares her thoughts on these questions and more, offering suggestions for UX professionals wishing to set themselves up for success in a future of coexistence with artificial intelligence systems and automation. (Surprisingly, these tips are quite helpful for planning and analyzing quantitative user research as well.)

Visual design takes a lot more work than just making things look pretty, and is a fundamental part of many user's experiences. Our digital design lead, Kelley Gordon, shares some practical tips for both designers and "non-designers" alike to strengthen visual designs and improve working relationships. 

Have you thought about your career lately? Chances are, you have - given the buzz around the record high voluntary resignation rates during this “Great Resignation.” In this episode, Sarah Doody, UX Researcher, Experience Designer, and Founder of the Career Strategy Lab, shares her thoughts on how UX professionals can design their ideal careers, whether they’re in the market for a new role or not.

Read more about Sarah Doody: 

UX professionals often find themselves saddled with the burden of convincing others to value UX work. David Glazier, Sr. Staff UX Lead of Digital Experience at Illumina tells his story about how effective communication helped him get buy-in with stakeholders and key decision-makers.

There is no question that user research has changed over the last two years, but how significant are those changes? The answer is complex, but User Interviews' Erin May (VP Growth & Marketing) and JH Forster (VP Product) demystify these trends and share their observations and hopes for the years to come.

As design teams mature in size and scope, the importance of intentionally designing and systematizing processes, approaches, and tools becomes increasingly difficult to ignore. Kate Kaplan shares insights from her research studying design teams and offers tips for those seeking to initiate and lead DesignOps efforts as a way to make design more impactful at their organizations.

A two-part podcast episode discussing the implications of decentralized computing and mixed reality on the future of UX work.