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This was kinda brought to me be a guy who said science could answer philosophical questions:

"There is no inherent ‘self’, and research supports this. Like a group of cells working together, where each cell performs specific functions. On its own, a cell doesn’t exhibit self-awareness, but when cells group together, they coordinate and can perform more complex tasks, like tissue formation or organ development.

It may appear as if a ‘self’ is emerging, but this is not true self-awareness. There is no singular, central ‘self.’ What we perceive as coordinated behavior is a quasi-self, an emergent property arising from the interactions between cells. The ‘self’ is a concept we impose, while in reality, it’s a product of collective responses and emergent behavior. Its just chemicals reacting to responses ,period. If anyone doesn't come to that same conclusion they haven't dug deep enough."

"Its a hard concept, people can look and act normal. But that's just a response from them internally. For example… Love is not a thing, love is just being familiar with something. Being familiar is knowing something is not a threat and its helpful.

This means your cells don't need to give out stress responses so they release good feeling chemicals. This makes you smile and enjoy the interaction. Doesn't mean you choose to do this. It just happens from inside. We just justify it as our decision but its not Its hard to understand if you don't study it"

“I'm not non binary but see people as people not sexes being that's what we all are is a pile of cells and quirky personalities. And the more connections we have the longer we can live and thrive so thats me. I sleep well but I don't think you meant it in the proper sense.”

"Check out Thomas Metzinger, Anil Seth, Evan Thompson many many others"

I checked out the philosophers, the only one who seems to say it doesn't exist is Thomas Metzinger. Anil Seth has a very nuanced take on the self. But the most I found when it comes to the self is that science doesn't really know. Some say yes and that it's an emergent phenomenon of the brain, others say no.

Though IMO calling people just "a pile of cells" sounds like a gross misunderstanding of what is going on in living things.

I guess the idea just bugs me, like if there is no self then what does that mean ethically? What about living? It just raises a lot of questions I don't have answers to.

When I read others saying similarly I wonder how they live and feel about "others":

I was very exited to read this book. As someone who, out of nowhere one day, realized with every cell in my body that there is no local self... no little man behind the eyes. That what is “me” is just a collection of highly inaccurate cultural beliefs, sensory impressions, stories etc... I wanted to read Metzinger’s take on the latest views from science and philosophy. Sadly, he ended the plausibility of his book on page 20 with the following statement.

Does this mean "people" stop mattering? I hear the "self" referred to as a story so is that what "people" reduce to? Sounds bleak.

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    That first quote is utter nonsense. The conclusions he draws from the evidence he lays out do not remotely follow from the evidence. Commented yesterday
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    One can always use self-reference as a cheeky way to defeat this sort of argument. "Science" is also not a thing, nor is a "proof", those are just a bunch of cells and particles moving around. So "science" cannot "prove" anything. Commented 22 hours ago
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    @JD it's reductio as absurdam - if the human being is just made out of cells and the cells function on their own without needing to reference the "self" the same can be applied to human behaviors such as doing science and proving things. "Science" is also not present in the cells which make up human scientists nor in the moleculars of their equipment Commented 21 hours ago
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    @DarkMalthorp I see. You're advocating an argumentation strategy. :D Your comment makes more sense. Sorry about that. Commented 21 hours ago
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    Your phone is made up of molecules and electrons. Does that make it "not real"? Does it make the crossword puzzle you are playing on it "not real"? Does it make StackExchange "not real"? Just because something has constituent parts doesn't make it less real, it's merely a means to deeper understanding of the phenomenon. One cannot truly understand StackExchange without an understanding of software languages and machine code and processors and RAM and transistors and electrons and the molecular properties of doped silicon. Shit is complicated, but that doesn't make it fake. Commented 13 hours ago

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It is difficult to answer a question where the main concept is not well-defined: The Self.

  1. Thomas Metzinger, in particular, is one who makes in his book Being No One a precise proposal how to understand the Self-model as part of the world-model of a person.

  2. Generally one identifies the Self with the sum of all experiences during their life which a person stores in his memory, the experiences together with their assessment. Also all predeterminations and inheritance from the biological evolution are the frame for the development of the Self.

    These factors can be investigated by science, see Kevin Mitchell Free Agents.

  3. Until now, no science proved that the Self does not exist. On the contrary, neuroscience aims at a working definition of the Self. And then sets up to investigate the neuronal correlate of the Self.

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  • So then the stuff I provided isn't accurate? The comment at the end mentioned a collection of "highly inaccurate cultural beliefs" but I have no idea what that could mean. I'm also not sure what there not being a self would mean per se. Commented yesterday
  • @BoltStorm: I would say the fact that you have no idea what your friend means in this case is because they are, simply, confused. No, their claims are not accurate. Commented 20 hours ago
  • @BoltStorm, Your friend's supposed "claims" are not only not accurate, but are nothing more than unsubstantiated, pessimistic personal opinion. There is no objective science behind any of them, so don't let it drag you down. If the self didn't exist we wouldn't have the society we have, "science" as a thing would not even exist, and you wouldn't have asked the question because you'd just be sitting there processing food into poop. Commented 16 hours ago
  • @MichaelHall Well the arguments I got from him is that it's a story and that you can survive without a story and he made the argument that infants don't have a narrative, Commented 15 hours ago
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    @MichaelHall I don't think I said he was my friend but you might be right. He seems too certain of science being able to answer every question when science tends to raise more questions than it answers. Commented 4 hours ago
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You ask:

Does science prove that the self does not exist, and if so what would that mean for human society?

The short answer is no: science does not prove the self does not exist; but it may assume it, if the scientist is so inclined, though the notion there is no self (IEP), it would be an uncommon presumption among scientists of any sort. The belief that the self exists is a natural extension of naive realism, the "default" metaphysics of pre-theoretic thinking. For instance, psychologists tend to presume that the self exists, especially since behaviorism (IEP) fell out of favor, but radical behaviorism, for instance, might be seen as holding that no self exists, at least from a current psychological perspective. Here, B.F. Skinner argued against the use of language regarding mental states in psychological discourse choosing instead to see only the external behaviors of the human being. So, is it fair to say that Skinner argued the self does not exist? Perhaps.

It might be fairer to argue that Skinner's work shows that if the self exists, it exists, not as some sort of essence or substance, but as a recognition that the label 'self' is externally observable sets of dispositions or a collection of behaviors, a history of its function. This would certainly align with some sort of nominalist thinking suggesting that there is no physical self, but is a term simply used by one human to categorize another. But, then, what is the self if it is not the subjective life of a human replete with phenomenological experience including categories and language?

But rather than settle the question, it's important to understand that in a naturalized epistemology, science and philosophy are continuous in a way that the metaphysics of a science are part of its presumptions. In other words, if one were a psychologist, an expert in the mind, one's beliefs about philosophy of mind and psychology primarily inform one's scientific beliefs. That is because science plays the role of a narrow epistemologist helping the thinker constrain metaphysical reasoning with methodological naturalism.

So, science doesn't prove one's first principles, though it may influence selecting them, but rather one's first principles (does the self exist?) tend to become the presumptions of one's science. In this way, practicing scientists, who often themselves have unexamined philosophical beliefs and values, tend to use their intuition to decide which categories are appropriate. Thus, while the claim that the self doesn't exist can be argued, it is an unnatural approach to thinking about the world particularly given how ego both our daily lives and the practice of science itself is.

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  • Then what about the thinkers he cites. I know Thomas Metzinger is a serious one though the word I've heard is that he's very reductionist and tends to over extend what science actually says. Commented 15 hours ago
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The key fallacy of your friend is in this sentence:

The ‘self’ is a concept we impose, while in reality, it’s a product of collective responses and emergent behavior.

Even if the world were provably reductionistic deterministic (i.e. all things are reducible to deterministic motions of fundamental particles), this does not mean that the 'self' is imposed by us. And science has not proven that, nor can it ever do so theoretically; we cannot prove that all things that we haven't observed follow the rules of the things that we have observed. Science commonly makes such inferences, and it works pretty well. The question of why is pretty interesting philosophy but beyond the scope of this Q.

For instance, Gottfried Leibniz developed an idea he called "The System of Pre-Established Harmony", in which all the world behaves in deterministic fashion according to physical rules, but it was made in parallel to the human soul in such a way that the behavior of the soul/self runs in perfect harmony with the physical world. So basically the "self" is part of the initial cause of the material world that leads to all the things you experience. While this requires causality to not follow a definite temporal sequence, it is a possibility that allows for both a strong physical reductionism and a real immaterial human soul. (Whether or not Leibniz is correct is of course a different question, but it means that your friend must do some more work to draw the inference which he claims is "proven".)

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  • +1 "this does not mean that the 'self' is imposed by us. And science has not proven that, nor can it ever do so theoretically;" From the position of the scientific realist, I don't think you'd find any dissent. But if it's a philosophical debate, and anti-realist would clearly embrace the self doesn't exist, no? After all, there is nothing physically tangible about the self at all, and psychologists struggle to come up with operational definitions to substantiate the notion of self and mind, no? Commented 21 hours ago
  • @JD Seems right to me, though tbh I'm not very up to date on my philosophy of science. Your answer seems the most correct to me. Commented 21 hours ago
  • Let me challenge you in accepting there are correct answers to philosophical answers, and perhaps only one's adequate for one's goals. I think every answer, even in its rejection, might lend some perspective to the question. I think you have captured the essence of the response the OP is seeking; hence my upvote! :D Commented 21 hours ago
  • @JD Thanks :) I upvoted yours as well. Commented 20 hours ago
  • What about the thinkers that he cited like Thomas Metzinger who cites a bunch of experiments? Or that there is no "seat" of the self in the brain? Or that body cells are frequently replaced? Or those that call it a model or simulation to track where we are in the world Commented 15 hours ago
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Science doesn’t prove that the self doesn’t exist; it challenges the idea of a fixed, permanent, independent self. Neuroscience and philosophy suggest the self is a dynamic process rather than a solid entity. This doesn’t erase responsibility or social identity—it invites us to rethink them as evolving constructs shaped by brain activity, culture, and experience.

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The material you have quoted is a set of unsupported statements without proper context, and relies on "exists" being poorly specified. It is a misrepresentation of what science says, at best.

By those arguments, nothing in your daily experience of the physical world exists because they are all built of smaller components. As you point out, you exist. The fact the self may also be assembled from components does not mean it does not exist.

Also, we normally do not restrict the term "exists" to physical substances. Ideas, for example, exist though their reference may not; the idea of a dragon exists, for example.

What neuroscience would say is that the self is built from our innate capabilities, our learned capabilities, and a model of ourselves that operates in much the same way that our models of others do. This exists just as much as the combination of a computer's hardware and firmware, data, and running programs do. The fact that some of it is patterns of energy sustained by feedback loops does not mean it does not exist, it just means it is not entirely built out of matter, though it is entirely supported by matter.

There are philosophers who challenge this, asserting for various reasons that the self must be a separate non-physical thing that merely interacts with the physical brain and body. See past discussion here of physicalism versus non-physicalism for extended discussion of that set of beliefs. But even they would say that the self exists, it just doesn't exist where science has yet found a way to examine it. See also past discussion tagged "self".

So, yes, your friend is... confused. Or trying to be confusing. Neither would be especially surprising, both are wrong.

When somebody says it's all an illusion, that's all an illusion.

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  • +1 Unless... they mean something special by "illusion" :) Commented 19 hours ago
  • @mudskipper: If so, that gets us back into "define your terms," of course. Pulling another Fourth Tower Of Inverness quote out of context, language can be described as being "a bit like riding on the back of a giant snake. At any moment, it is likely to turn and bite you." Commented 19 hours ago
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    +1 'and relies on "exists" being poorly specified' - Sometimes feels like all of philosophy is just a confusion about this term! Commented 19 hours ago
  • That sounds about right, though IMO it was a red flag when I heard him say that science could solve philosophical problems and even told me it could solve the trolly problem. Commented 15 hours ago
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    @BoltStorm: Dunning - Kruger effect. Everything looks easy to the guy who doesn't know how much he doesn't know. Especially the guy who doesn't want to learn how much he doesn't know. Commented 14 hours ago
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In my opinion, science does not prove that the self does not exist—it just shows that the self is not a single, solid “thing” in the way common sense imagines it.

Neuroscience suggests that what we call the self is an ongoing process: patterns of memory, perception, emotion, and decision-making distributed across the brain. There is no central “control room,” but that doesn’t mean there is no self—only that it’s dynamic, constructed, and constantly updated. Saying the self doesn’t exist is a bit like saying a wave doesn’t exist because it’s made of moving water.

For human society, this view is more clarifying than destructive. It encourages humility, empathy, and flexibility: if selves are shaped by biology, environment, and history, then moral responsibility still matters, but so does understanding context. Laws, ethics, and relationships don’t collapse—they just shift focus from a rigid, isolated ego to a more relational and evolving human identity.

So rather than erasing the self, science reframes it. And honestly, that version of the self is more interesting—and more humane—than the old, immovable one.

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Science deals with physical facts (facts that are perceived empirically, by the physical senses) that can be observed and measured objectively.

Science does not deal with metaphysical facts (facts that emerge rationally, by means of reason) which can't be measured objectively, but are essentially subjective.

The self is a metaphysical entity. It is not addressed by science, but by philosophy.

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    +1 "Science deals with physical facts (facts that are perceived empirically, by the physical senses) that can be observed and measured objectively." This is the crux of the matter; well done. Commented 21 hours ago
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    As a mathematician, I find this dichotomy of "physical=objective" and "metaphysical=subjective" highly problematic. Science is both far less objective and far more material-oriented than math Commented 21 hours ago
  • All perceptions are subjective. The rejection of evaluation of metaphysics was the downfall of Logical Positivism, which was demonstrated to be self refuting. Science has metaphysical assumptions embedded in it. Whether we can distinguish properties or models between physical and non physical is a claim that is basically impossible to defend. Is the hardness of the stop sign I am imagining physical? Or non-physical? Or metaphysical? Methodological naturalism just blends rationalism with empiricism, and makes none of your ontological claims. Commented 16 hours ago

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