4

EDIT: By choice of phrasing of question, I did not mean to convey awareness and endorsement of all works of Maslow and Freud, and I most certainly do not have such awareness, and so cannot/do not endorse or recommend. My awareness extends only to a couple of specific ideas/concepts... specifically mentioned below. Concepts I happen to find "sympatico". But which I think may have updated better versions.

If Maslow and Freud had ten bad ideas, and one good one, each, the ten bad ideas are not consequential in this instance.

If the mentioned concepts are "bad ideas"... then go ahead and say that. And best... mention what might replace them.

In describing the human "self" or individual, or personal identity, who we are and what makes us tick... analytically...the source of our decisions, actions, "What comes out"... what we decide we are willing to actually utter...

I am aware of Freuds suggested Id, Ego, and Superego. And Maslow's Heirarchy of Human Needs and his categorizations into physiological, social, etc.

If I had of "stayed in school", and gotten to Philosophy 501, instead of being a second year dropout... are there other contemporary/modern contributors analysis of "Who we are, how we think, and why we think?"

I don't even know if... are Maslow and Freud good "foundations", from a philosophical assessment of "systems of breaking down and describing an identity"? Sometimes original theories get updated, made better...

  • Such as Darwin's evolution of species being supported and improved upon by our discovery of genetics and mutations and the chemical way characteristics and traits are handed down generation to generation.

  • The "Big Bang" and expansion getting improved upon (mathematically, theoretically) by the invocation of onconfirmed "Dark Matter" and "Dark Energy" to create the fuller "LamdaCDM" model.

Are there more popular, more accepted, more betterer (grin) analysis of self, that one learns about within later years of Philosophy? Please.

(This is my first question that I think might fit the model of this site, just right. Fingers crossed. I am interested to see what can be learned.)

Oh. Maybe someone has grouped and categorized the input from "others" as one grows up and becomes who we become? The exposures and opportunities to absorb and learn from observation and experience. Some sort of analysis of that aspect of who we are, by way of "Path's found, paths taken, paths walked"? Or some system of grouping I am not aware of??

We all recognize we are not the same person we would be, if we were say, born into a royal family, or the off-spring of a pair of Harvard Professors, or an A-list actor or owner of a multi-billion dollar business empire. (Not that I would wish any of the above on myself or any other). I just mean to say, it seems obvious... "birth and upbringinging" are a large part of "Who we have become". Maybe there has been an analyst that has thought that stuff through and come up with a good syntheses?

Anything along these lines would be appreciated.

Improve this question
13
  • 2
    Any author in social psychology, and there are many, could go into the blanks. I read original Freud: The Ego and the Id; Civilization and Its Discontents. I read the paper by Maslow concerning the description of needs. Freud is more insightful. Why? He begins at the origin with the helpless newborn ego. Maslow's theory should be revised to assert that newborn human ego needs are inherently social needs. I discovered the early life needs after my sociology teacher in high school said, "Humans learn animals have instincts." Fish eggs hatch in 10s of 1000s with no parents. Mammal ego is social. Commented Apr 27, 2024 at 16:12
  • I like to do that... imagining a human baby, born on an island that luckily has no threats/risks, and luckily somehow without other humans, supplies all the babies physical needs... thinking what opinion it would have about things... the blank slate. Verus a baby brought up in society. Commented Apr 27, 2024 at 16:21
  • 1
    Dramatic artists express such thought experiments. I don't regard Freud as a scientist, nor social psychology as an empirical science, I regard it as introspection of myself and my analysis of patterns of drama. This is a very enriching way to live but I detest the fools who want to imitate scientists in their drama rather than to say that we must experience drama to understand and discuss the experience of drama. I used to stand in a bar in a Zen posture. My friend called this: Tarzan standing on a rock. As a teen I wanted to be like Tarzan (but not baby Tarzan): youtu.be/_h2wd9RcexA. Commented Apr 27, 2024 at 16:29
  • 1
    I don't want to engage in extended discussion. The sounds made by babies may be the most economical or typical for the human organism. But they form in a social context as the experience and expression of biological drives for social interaction with the innate or instinctual capacity to develop language. In Trademark law there are descriptive names, suggestive names, and arbitrary and fanciful names. XEROX, for example, is a meaningless name that aquires "secondary meaning" via use in association with goods for sale in the markets. Man lives by every word from the mouth of God starting w/Mom. Commented Apr 27, 2024 at 17:12
  • 1
    If you read any book, ever, read Caste. Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 12:18

1 Answer 1

Reset to default
1

OP: "In describing the human "self" or individual, or personal identity, who we are and what makes us tick..."

Filling in the blank I would choose C. Fred Alford. Not a highly prominent name but one who highlighted a significant fact about human individuals: that they are highly influenced by their groups, their tribes, harking back to millennia in which group instincts are formed. A line of reading can be drawn:

  • 1895 Gustav Le Bob – The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind
  • 1913 Sigmund Freud – Totem & Taboo
  • 1921 Sigmund Freud – Group Psychology and the Analysis of the Ego
  • 1960 Elias Canetti – Crowds and Power
  • 1994 C. Fred Alford – Group Psychology and Political Theory

In this innovative book, C. Fred Alford argues that the group – not the individual – is the most fundamental reality in society and that political theory has overlooked the insights of group psychology and leadership. Basing his argument on his experience with the Tavistock model of group learning (named for the institute in England where this method of group study originated), Alford asserts that small, unstructured, leaderless groups are the closest thing to the state of nature that political theorists write about. goodreads

Improve this answer
4
  • Right, there is a current idea that an overemphasis on individual liberty has brought us to an impasse. But, groups voted in our political leaders... (or did they?) Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 12:24
  • 1
    @ScottRowe My concern is that understanding id, ego & superego is a start, but egos operate in groups and more significantly, groups operate on egos, e.g. "role suction", conformity. Canetti describes 4 pack behaviours and their transmutations and Alford describes 5 small group behaviours that are more or less similar but are smaller in detail. The group dynamics switch and change and the individuals are generally swept along. To understand oneself one needs to understand the group, which – evolutionarily – is the more primal unit. Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 13:39
  • 1
    Interesting. That matches well with my observation that human interactions within tribes (however we are instinctively defining our tribes) tend to be hedonic while those between tribes are more likely to become agonic. Though I'm not sure whether the right word is actually tribe, pack, or some other social unit, and we seem to be able to affiliate with multiple groups at once. Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 23:06
  • 1
    @keshlam Yes, one could draw equivalences between hedonic-agonic and Freud's eros-thanatos. Commented Mar 6, 2025 at 13:06

You must log in to answer this question.

Start asking to get answers

Find the answer to your question by asking.

Ask question

Explore related questions

See similar questions with these tags.