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So this is more to do with the "new" (relatively) discovery that won the Nobel Prize that proved that Quantum Physics is not locally real. I'm familiar with the Scientific American article, but I take issue with it in that it seems to be overly sensational in tone and in terms of implications. I've asked this question to physicists, and the answers I got were that these findings don't have the implications people are drawing from it.

How I understand the issue is that the particles are non-local, and though their findings are preliminary, they did prove non-locality, which just means particles don't have to be near each other to affect each other. I just find it odd that people are drawing conclusion like anti-realism when the research doesn't say that. Are any of the more sensational conclusions warranted because it just seems to apply to the quantum world and not our classical lives?

(This was sorta inspired by the top answer to this question: What are the ontological implications of that “the universe is not locally real” in quantum mechanics?)

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    See what I mean? Here we have a smart, well-intentioned person. The kind of person who tries hard to only believe things that are true. But he made a terrible mistake! He read some science journalism and thought it was giving him information beyond references and reasons to mock the profession of journalism. And as a result, he believes nonsense. Commented Dec 22, 2024 at 8:15
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    @gs I am assuming that you think Double Knot’s statement that entangled particles can influence each other instantaneously is nonsense. However, many physicists actually do believe this and many are taking this seriously. There are also interpretations of QM (such as Bohmian mechanics) that posit just these kinds of influences. Ironically, some physicists think it to be nonsense that these influences that would explain non local correlations are not occurring. Commented Dec 22, 2024 at 10:59
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    This question should really be updated with links to the articles involved plus answers to @Lowri 's questions. As it stands it just expresses a feeling of "oddness" about -- I don't know about what. (Yes -- journalism is often no more than sensaionalism - especially also in popular science physics journalism. Regrettable, but not odd.) I'm voting to close it for these reasons. Commented Dec 22, 2024 at 14:43
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    @Steve Your "wish it were so" about realism does not make science a conspiracy to refute your preferred worldview. and your seizing upon Quine-Duhem to argue against inference to the best explanation is you rejecting science in favor of your ideology. Science relies upon usable predictions and the ability to do testing. That Einstein's Hidden Variables failed multiple test cases, and Bohmian mechanics is also clearly going down that path -- matters to actual scientists. It does not matter to ideologues, which looks like the case for you. Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 18:39
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    @Steve I think what you have to appreciate Steve is the attitude "I know it when I hear it" is sort of anti-philosophical, which is certainly your prerogative. But from the perspective of those of us who take the time to read Duhem, Quine, Sellars, McDowell, Lewis, Dummett (those are 5% of the books I own on the topic), you come across as argumentative, but uneducated on the topic. I'm not insulting you, but just pointing out that knowledge on what constitutes anti-realism, idealism, Platonism, etc. are a necessary condition on criticizing critics of scientific realism... Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 22:06

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"I've asked this question to physicists and the answers I got seem to imply that it's NO, this doesn't have the implications people are drawing from it."

This is almost certainly the correct take, yes. At the macroscopic level, everything you interact with is essentially as real as it seems, even if some other kind of quantum non-realism is true.

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It's a strange claim to hear that local realism has just been falsified, because I thought JS Bell had already proved in 1964 that local realism was impossible to reconcile with the evidence!

There's actually two common (and subtly distinct) ways in which the concept of "locality" is used in physics.

In relativity, "locality" is the idea that cause-and-effect must mediate through space and that influences in any one area must only come from adjacent areas of space. This is standard stuff from wave mechanics. No "action-at-a-distance", no wormholes, no instantaneous global influence.

At the turn of the 20th century, it was novel to make this a fully-general principle for the first time, because hitherto some things, like Newton's gravity, had been thought to propagate the universe instantly.

In QM, "locality" is the idea that "variables" are fully encoded in a region of space occupied by the hypothesised "particle". Basically, if you fire a bullet, it's trajectory and speed are the relevant "variables" which determine where it hits.

It's the latter, QM-style of locality which has been proven inconsistent with the evidence.

In the 1930s, it was thought QM was showing such remarkable results that it might be showing inconsistency with realism. And there have always been those with a broadly anti-science and anti-rational agenda who want to fill the gaps.

Indeed we see in hindsight that physicists were largely ignoring the possibilities, tied up with their own theoretical errors, or politically persecuting those with the answers. In 1928 DeBroglie made an ill-received suggestion that proceeded from the same kind of concept as Bohmian mechanics ultimately did in 1952, which was also ill-received.

Von Neumann was also thought in 1932 to have produced a proof which showed QM was incompatible with realism - a proof that was later falsified, although it still seemed to exert a dead-hand effect long afterwards.

Bohmian mechanics is a "non-local realist" theory which posits a guiding "pilot wave". The easiest analogy I find for this is setting a rubber duck onto the sea and letting it travel wherever the waves take it. It is "non-local" because it is the sea which determines where the duck ends up, not the duck - the trajectory and speed of the duck are not variables local to the duck, and where the duck ultimately ends up cannot be determined by any measurement of the duck itself.

I can't see why these facts have any grave implications for our everyday lives, since once physics is wrested from the hands of physicists (many of whom have strange ulterior agendas that directs their behaviour, their attentions, and determines the kind of explanations they want to find or advance), it becomes apparent that the broad concepts are fairly familiar.

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  • That Nobel prize was long overdue. Alain Aspect's experiment was done in 1982, then there were still some theoretical loopholes, but in 1998 that was conclusively solved. Nobel prize was only awarded in 2022... Commented Dec 22, 2024 at 15:14
  • “Locality” was only disproved in the at or slower than light sense. I don’t think there is any definitive proof that signals are not transferring or propagating between particles faster than light. No-go theorems “prove” this but they are arguably circular since they assume relativity and local Hamiltonian dynamics which is the very issue at hand. (FTL signals break relativity). See here: arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9906036 Commented Feb 25, 2025 at 12:39
  • @Syed, yes I think existing experiments probably have presupposed the speed of light being either at, or within some margin of, its current assumed level, and that nothing moves faster. Beyond that margin, proofs against local realism would fall away. Although with entanglement, the fact that two local variables, perhaps at great distance, would be supposed to have a special connection and to respond in sympathy to one another, does already somewhat undermine the general idea of each variable having "locality" - it's difficult to see what advantage such an explanation has over the non-local. Commented Feb 25, 2025 at 20:23
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Mathematics and the physical sciences have always been abused to draw improper conclusions, going at least as far back as the dawn of civilization, as we seen in the numerology and astrology of Sumer. Stargazing was a useful field that allowed one to organize calendars and predict the best time to plant and harvest. People decided that if the stars can do that, why can't they tell if you are going to win a war or have a successful child? That's how astrology was born. People were extremely impressed with the way that arithmetic could predict how many urns of beer would fit in the hold of a ship, so they thought it should also be able to predict how long a man's life would be and other things.

The Greeks followed this tradition and added more. They were impressed with the discovery that harmony is produced by small whole-number ratios and built a cosmology out of it. Empedocles was impressed how so many colors could be produced by just four base colors (which oddly to modern sensibilities didn't include any cool colors like blue or green), and he invented a chemistry based on four elements, inspired by the science of painting.

Newton's theory of gravitation led to the adoption of a clockwork universe by many scholars. Darwin's discovery of natural selection led to scholars trying to fit absolutely everything into an evolutionary framework, even things like the racial makeup of man (Hitler's attempt to eliminate "less fit" races) and the social acceptance of new ideas (meme theory). Einstein's theory of relativity led to three-quarters of a century of bad philosophy claiming that his theory of how one calculates the motion of particles based on a given frame of reference proved that "everything is relative" including God, morality, and even truth itself.

All of these are nonsense, of course, and were never rationally supported by the mathematics or science that gave rise to them, but people tend to think in terms of paradigms. Evolution is a nice paradigm so they try to understand everything in terms of evolution. Newtonian mechanics is a nice paradigm so they try to understand everything in that paradigm.

This is just another example of the same nonsense, people not understanding the limits of what has been scientifically proven and adopting it as a general paradigm.

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    everything is relative including God and morality Which God are you speaking of? The one that prescribed stoning as a punishment for blasphemy and adultery? Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 0:30
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    @Philomath, not every mention of God is an invitation to have yet another argument. Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 3:05
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    It is if it's part of a polemic that is mostly fact free opinion and which in no way answers the question (how non-locality affects our daily lives ). You write something provocative, call people out for nonsense, you can expect a reply. Here it is Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 3:41
  • All good, no hard feelings. Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 5:04
  • If you want to say e.g. viruses don't evolve, good luck explaining they spread and why vaccines work and don't work based on an evolutionary understanding of viruses. If evolution underpins all life on Earth, as it seems to, then of course much of our understanding of life would be built on that and wouldn't make much sense without it. People trying to criticise evolution tend to fail spectacularly to produce any valid criticism or offer any better explanation for the evidence. It's also an accurate analogy for many non-biological processes. Calling it "nonsense" does little to refute that. Commented Dec 25, 2024 at 16:49
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You make a valid point. The discovery regarding quantum non-locality is certainly groundbreaking, but it's important to clarify the actual implications. The research doesn't definitively prove anti-realism or unreality, as some might suggest. It shows that quantum particles can influence each other without being physically close, which is different from saying reality itself is non-existent or subjective. Many physicists agree that we still lack a clear understanding of how or why this happens, and there's much more to explore. The findings mainly apply to quantum systems and don’t directly impact our classical experiences or understanding of reality.

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  • While I've upvoted this, one comment: 'real' is a word. That word on standard accounts has a standard set of implications/connotations. Locality is one of these. Now a mystic may use the word very differently, eg. claiming and presumably feeling I communicate with the stars; they're my friends etc. Most ppl, even sympathizers would not quite understand, or be able to put themselves in the mystic's shoes Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 7:16
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Yes. It plays an important role in enabling publishers to sucker the public into buying content in which sensational speculations are erected on a vanishingly thin foundation of scientific justification.

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  • Yes. This is an important point to make. The propaganda agenda of journalism doesn't stop just because the topic is ostensibly science. Commented Dec 22, 2024 at 13:15
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    You mean "Scientists confirm empirical basis for century old, generally accepted linguistic preference" wouldn't sell?! Commented Dec 22, 2024 at 18:31
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No, it won't mean that you will have randomly whales and bowls of petunias falling from the sky.

It may, however, affect future quantum cryptography:

Device-independent quantum key distribution allows two users to set up shared cryptographic key without the need to trust the quantum devices used. Doing so requires nonlocal correlations between the users.

So, there is some real use for it..

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  • The concept of an Ansible, yes? But it requires taking one half of the entangled pair(s) physically away to the second location. Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 13:33
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    @ScottRowe Sorry, don't know about Ansible. Encryption needs a common shared key that is transmitted from A to B. If you ensure that the signal consists of entangled particles, eg polarised photons, then you can avoid interception as interception necessarily is a measurement and thus collapses the quantum state, i.e. the entanglement. The Chinese did a successful experiment in 2020 that sent entangled particles from a satellite to three cities over 1200 kilometers. According to some people this could lead to an unhackable 'quantum internet'. Anyway, I am not an expert and don't claim to be one Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 14:05
  • @ScottRowe Ask Alice and Bob, they seem to be involved... Link Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 14:08
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    Someone turned a very beautiful and evocative scifi word in to a product name, which should be illegal. Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 15:01
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    @ScottRowe Ah, I see, no it is in fact, un-ansible. Nothing to do with faster-than-light. Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 15:11
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You ask:

Does the universe not being locally real mean anything for our daily lives?

If you are wondering if quantum entanglement being true means gravity will cease, cats really will walk around dead and not dead simultaneously, and whether or bodies will start crawling out of graves, I think you can safely reject the idea that non-locality has a sudden and important impact on our daily lives. As others have pointed out, quantum computation may or may not eventually influence our lives. WP points out the challenges with applied QM:

Quantum computers are not yet practical for real work. Physically engineering high-quality qubits has proven challenging. If a physical qubit is not sufficiently isolated from its environment, it suffers from quantum decoherence, introducing noise into calculations. National governments have invested heavily in experimental research that aims to develop scalable qubits with longer coherence times and lower error rates

Since the beginning, QM has been a source of philosophical conflict with scientists like Einstein looking for ways to undermine the implications. Physicists prior to QM had a very mechanistic understanding of the universe that comes in no small part of Newtonian mechanics. General relativity also affords us a wonderful mathematical framework for making calculations. Einstein is still showing us how powerful math is with recent research validating his theory. Here's an article explaining how data from observations of double pulsars affirms Einstein's calculations. (spaceaustralia.com). QM undermines our certainty and powers of prediction in the world.

Today, there are still multiple interpretations of QM findings, and the Copenhagen interpretation from my understanding as a non-physicist is that it is the interpretation taught at the undergraduate level making it the received view. There are certain topics in QM like wave-particle duality, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, and Bell's theorem which can be unsettling to people invested in their worldviews particularly where they clash with these aspects of QM above. The SciAm article you reference notes it saying:

The journey from fringe to favor was a long one. From about 1940 until as late as 1990, studies of so-called quantum foundations were often treated as philosophy at best and crackpottery at worst. Many scientific journals refused to publish papers on the topic, and academic positions indulging such investigations were nearly impossible to come by.

For modern "skeptics", QM is a constant source of woo (rationalwiki.org). Consciousness is caused by QM. Telepathy is supported by QM. QM in this way becomes like a magical force that shaky arguments can use to take a legitimate, but arcane topic in physics as a means of support of an otherwise specious argument. This even holds in science, where some physicists have begun asking questions about whether some modern physics is pseudoscience. Sabine Hossenfelder, a German physicist has a series of videos (YT) questioning some physics research which has no empirical evidence.

What is important to understand is that science has a social dimension. Researchers in the philosophy of science like Fleck, Kuhn, Feyerabend, and Gross have explored how science is actually done, and surprise! people aren't computers and behave like people. That means science is vulnerable to human motivations like sensationalism, specious argumentation (formal and otherwise), and other excesses of rhetoric and venality. Max Planck has contributed his name to a physics constant, a first-rate research institute, and the Planck's principle:

In sociology of scientific knowledge, Planck's principle is the view that scientific change does not occur because individual scientists change their mind, but rather that successive generations of scientists have different views.

You say:

I just find it odd that people are drawing conclusion like anti-realism when the research doesn't say that.

You shouldn't find it odd. Modern psychological research in the spirit of Kahneman and Tversky show that human beings are very susceptible to cognitive bias. Research by Dunning and Kruger show human beings struggle with self-insight. And the power of emotions and the limbic system to, as Goleman calls it, engage in "limbic hijacking" means that human beings, for all their capacity to do logic still struggle mightily with irrationality which is itself a topic of much philosophical contention.

If there's any doubt in your mind that intellectuals are somehow above irrationality themselves just because they are scientists or medical doctors, I encourage you to read up on the life Ignaz Semmelweiss. He entered into a conflict with the medical establishment by insisting that after working with corpses, doctors could reduce infant death by washing their hands. Given miasma theory was dominant at the time, he was ignored, ridiculed, and eventually betrayed by his wife and thrown into an asylum. It just goes to show that MDs and PhDs are just as susceptible to the disease of stupidity as the rest of us.

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  • That's more or less what I'm getting, that any time something like "reality isn't real" or that anti-realism thread I posted say they're supported by QM I've learned to just roll my eyes at it. That's not what the science means but that won't stop people from making that their case. Though as for the Copenhagen interpretation, I don't think that is the received view it's just the most well known one. Some say Many Worlds is supported by the information but TBH who knows for sure. Researching this stuff is tough. Commented Dec 25, 2024 at 1:22
  • MWI is woo. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… Commented Dec 25, 2024 at 3:02
  • @J D It's really not. There is some data that does support many worlds currently, but again we don't have anything definitive. But many worlds is not woo, you're thinking Multiverse. Also doesn't copenhagen say that nothing exists unless it's observed as in consciousness? Sounds pretty Wooey. Again just because it's taught in undergrad doesn't mean it's accepted, just well known. Commented Dec 25, 2024 at 22:41
  • "The many-worlds interpretation implies that there are many parallel, non-interacting worlds. It is one of a number of multiverse hypotheses in physics and philosophy." It's a type multiverse theory. But I have little interest in philosophy of physics, so all I can say is I affirm one empirically accessible spatial-temporal extension describeable by causality. As for CI, I subscribe to embodied cognition and have some toes on antirealist currents. Commented Dec 26, 2024 at 4:01
  • @J D People who equate many worlds with a multiverse don’t understand the interpretation. I’m not sure what embodied cognition means but I do know you can’t be an anti realist and in the same vein use science for your views. Also reading back I see you’re the one who wrote that nonsense answer on the ontological implications of this while butchering science to prove your point. Commented Dec 27, 2024 at 17:45
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The intersection with theoretical physics and our daily lives is vanishingly small. It simply doesn't concern most people. It's why political philosophy or the social sciences can safely ignore physical ontology and whether or not the universe is locally real or not.

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    That’s my thought. Like…none of this really affects our daily lives. Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 2:39
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    Heck, atomic physics normally is invisible in our daily lives; we just deal with chemistry, materials science, and other abstractions closer to our own scale. Commented Dec 23, 2024 at 4:49
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This came out after my writing the below answer:
Quantum Teleportation, one fanciful consequence of non-locality, seems to have moved a step from sci-fi to everyday reality.


Original answer

While your question focuses on non-locality in daily life, it's better to take it in the broader framing of non-locality, causality/non-determinism, duality, superposition, entanglement etc. etc.: In short QM in daily life.

Woo-ology Crash Course

There is a large cottage industry of folks connecting QM ideas (more correctly terms) to mystic/healing/wellness ideas.

In my college days in the 70s and 80s some of my friends and teachers were quite enamored of these: [Ive not read these but I think they set the direction for what follows]

  1. Fritjof Capra — Author of Tao of Physics
  2. Gary Zukav — Author of The Dancing Wu Li Masters and The Seat of the Soul.
  3. Erich von Daniken who 'proved' that God was an extra-terrestrial

This was before Deepak Chopra and a host of like woo-sters:
It must be noted that many of these were highly respected scientists before becoming woo-sters

  1. David Bohm — Creator of Bohmian QM, author of Wholeness and Implicate Order
  2. Amit Goswami — A theoretical quantum physicist and author of books like The Self-Aware Universe and Quantum Mechanics: An Overview. Link between QM consciousness and spirituality
  3. F. David Peat — author of Synchronicity: The Bridge Between Mind and Matter and The Black Hole: Gravity and the Nature of Time
  4. Rupert Sheldrake — Morphic resonance, which blends consciousness with a more expansive view of nature, it touches on areas where science and mysticism meet.
  5. Fred Alan Wolf — A physicist and author of The Quantum Leap and The Yoga of Time Travel.
  6. Michael Talbot — Author of The Holographic Universe, Reality as a hologram

Why do I mention these?

A recurring thread in all these is the link between QM ideas, consciousness and spirituality.

In more detail:

QM-Spirituality (putative) links

1. Water Memory and Quantum Entanglement

Claim: Water has "memory," retaining the energetic imprint of substances even when diluted to the point where no molecules remain.

QM Connection: The quantum entanglement of water molecules supposedly records information about substances.

Real World Connection: This is often cited in explanations of homeopathy, suggesting water can "remember" healing properties and transfer them to the body.

Often cited in discussions of homeopathy. A popular reference is the work of Jacques Benveniste, who claimed water retains the "memory" of substances. For more, Homeopathy and Water Memory.

2. Quantum Fluctuations and Homeopathy

Claim: Homeopathic remedies, despite extreme dilution, work because quantum fluctuations amplify the healing "essence" of the original substance.

QM Connection: Zero-point energy or vacuum fluctuations are claimed to sustain the essence of the original molecule.

Real World Connection: This bridges homeopathy with quantum field theories in very general terms.

Claims connecting quantum fluctuations to homeopathy: Quantum Healing in Homeopathy.

3. Observer Effect and Healing Intentions

Claim: Your thoughts and intentions can directly influence physical systems, like healing a person or altering the structure of water molecules.

QM Connection: The observer effect — where measurement collapses a quantum state — is invoked to argue that human consciousness shapes reality.

Real World Connection: Experiments like Masaru Emoto's "structured water" studies claim that kind or cruel words change water crystals’ shapes.

Masaru Emoto's work on water crystals and the effect of intentions or words on their structure is central to this claim.

4. Nonlocality and Psychic Connections

Claim: Psychic phenomena like telepathy or remote healing are explained by quantum nonlocality, where particles influence each other instantaneously across distances.

QM Connection: Human minds are likened to entangled particles capable of instantaneous communication.

Real World Connection: Cited as proof of the "interconnectedness of all things."

Prominent figures like Dean Radin author of Entangled Minds have written extensively on psychic phenomena and nonlocality.

5. Quantum Coherence and Alternative Medicine

Claim: Alternative therapies like acupuncture or energy healing create "quantum coherence" in the body's energy field, restoring health.

QM Connection: Coherent quantum systems (like Bose-Einstein condensates) are used as metaphors for balance in bodily energy fields.

Real World Connection: Suggests the body operates like a quantum computer, and illness arises from "decoherence."

Claims of "quantum coherence" in energy healing are frequently promoted by alternative medicine practitioners.

Example: Quantum Touch: Healing Through Energy.

6. Superposition and Multidimensional Healing

Claim: Illness exists in a superposition of states, and healing aligns you with the healthiest quantum possibility.

QM Connection: The wave function represents all possible health outcomes, and intention "collapses" this into the desired state.

Real World Connection: Implies you can heal yourself by aligning with the "highest frequency" in the multiverse.

This idea appears in metaphysical and New Age healing literature. Look at popular books or websites like Gaia.

7. Quantum Fields and Vibrational Medicine

Claim: Every organ or cell vibrates at a unique quantum frequency, and diseases disrupt this harmony. Healing involves re-tuning these vibrations.

QM Connection: Quantum field theory (QFT) is taken as a mystical force underlying life and health.

Real World Connection: Devices like "frequency generators" are marketed to restore vibrational balance.

Devices marketed to "retune vibrations" often cite quantum field theories. For example, the Rife machine claims to use frequencies for healing. See Rife Therapy.

8. Time Reversal and Emotional Trauma Healing

Claim: Emotional trauma creates quantum "time loops" in your energy field. Healing techniques can reverse these loops to prevent future illness.

QM Connection : From time symmetry in quantum equations.

Real World Connection: Used in practices like past-life regression and emotional clearing therapies.

Concepts like reversing emotional trauma loops are found in past-life regression therapy and similar practices. Example: Past Life Regression Healing.

So... is this ALL true?

Many people — of many persuasions — will jump and ask: Is this all true?

So first a basic point of logic: some of those cited above may be wrong (some may be ill-intentioned charlatans) and some may be true.
The »all« is unjustified.

On the other hand there is ample evidence that some of these things work. Here is the well-known atheist Matt Dillahunty admitting that in some life-threatening situations prayer is confirmed to work and then trying very hard to explain it away.

I find it all very amusing...

So either prayer works because there's an old guy-in-the-sky who's pleased with the genuflections.
Or its pure placebo effect.

Are there no alternatives like the creation of a positive mindset?

Here is an excerpt from a conversation between the prominent rationalist-atheist Matt Dillahunty and the Christian Glenn Scrivener.

Scrivener: ...the thing that makes you intrinsically religious (as against social questions) is that this is the most important thing in your life or helps me frame the rest of my decisions.

Dillahunty: I wouldn't even dispute that...

The sorts of things that you're describing as religiosity are important to humans and may in fact be beneficial my objection is to whether or not there's actually a truth behind that — well God thing.

I used to irritate some atheists because I would say I can prove to you that prayer works and I can demonstrate it right now:

If you're in a cave-in and you pray you are more likely to be rescued, not because there's some God listening to answer that but because prayer has a calming effect on you which extends the amount of time that you can be trapped which extends the likelihood that you can be rescued. The question then becomes if you know that it's the calming that extends the amount of time could you do the same thing with meditation.

I would like to hope that on a philosophy forum at least we not be hamstrung by scientism-ist preconceptions.


Steven Work's additions

Context at meta

The example of prayer ties together the mentioned statement that 'prayer sometimes works in life threating situations

Also, if ego may shift between many-worlds that are 'close', how far is that from defining consciousness as overlapping? Also psychic connections are implied, and perhaps some worlds more at faster rates so a level of future-sense may be suggested. And since much of your answer above suggests Quantum Theory, hence I thought to make these suggestions.

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  • Welcome @stevenwork.I've allowed your edit. They sound ok. But I'm not sure I fully understand your intention. Could you pls elaborate a bit, in particular "The prayer's subjects'??? Commented Dec 25, 2024 at 2:47
  • @StevenWork Thx your detailed explanation as edit. As u acknowledge, it's not suitable (as is) as part of this answer. I'll take a few hours to bi or trifurcate it into here, chat and meta as appropriate. And merry Christmas! Commented Dec 25, 2024 at 3:44
  • And others — mods formally appointed, elected or defacto modders — pls give me few hours to move this into it's proper place. I think the special casing is appropriate given Steven's points + lack of privilege Commented Dec 25, 2024 at 3:47
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    "prayer sometimes works" ... and prayer often doesn't work. About as often as random chance, in fact. I brushed my teeth this morning and I narrowly avoided a car accident this afternoon. Might've been random chance, but I'll just choose to believe brushing my teeth worked to appease the tooth fairy, so they protected me. We know a lot about attributing causation, and prayer fails whenever we try to test that. The only way one can get to "prayer works" is if you just ignore all that, and you just assume that it works. Commented Dec 25, 2024 at 18:58
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    "prayers sometimes works in life-threatening situations" - I really doubt you have enough data to show that praying or not praying in those situations changes the outcome. Commented Dec 25, 2024 at 21:38
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No, it just means that any theory that explains the predictions of QM must be non local (in the sense that our observations cannot fully be explained by processes that are at or slower than the speed of light).

Any interpretations of these results that imply that the world is “not real” is incoherent from the get go. You can go in the lab and actually view measurements occurring. We can all see them. Even if the property that we are measuring does not fully exist definitely before measurement, we are still dealing with something that is “really there” out there.

As a very crude analogy, a banana does not become food until we put it in our mouths. Thus, the property of it being food doesn’t exist until then. This doesn’t change the fact that there is a banana out there before it enters our mouths. If there was “nothing really out there”, what are we measuring? Even the idea of a measurement is an anthropomorphic term and has nothing to do with physics, which is why the so called “measurement problem” exists.

Anyone who uses QM to posit that the world “isn’t actually real” is engaging in incoherence and is anti scientific.

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  • "Thus, the property of it being food doesn’t exist until then." - you might say the foodiness is not a "property" of a banana in the first place, but a manner of treating a banana, or a property of a digestive system applied to the banana (there are many things that only some animals can digest and not others). Commented Feb 25, 2025 at 20:28

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