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Advertising revenue is a necessary component of our financial strategy to not only keep the lights on, but to continue improving the site. It also allows us to bring new ideas to fruition so we can continue to be a source of human-verified truth in an increasingly AI-influenced world. Implementing improvements and new projects takes revenue, and we’d be doing a disservice to ourselves and you by not trying to find responsible means of maximizing that revenue to accomplish those goals.

So, what does this all mean in concrete terms?

Native ads will be added between Question posts, at a rate of one ad every five posts, with the first one being slotted between the 2nd and 3rd post of a site.

Native ads, by definition, are designed to look and feel like a natural addition to a site. As you can see in the image below, the team worked very hard to make the ads feel like a part of the site while still very clearly being labeled as an advertisement.

Native ads mockup image, with labels pointing out differently shaded background, "Sponsored" label, tags working as normal, etc.

Some key highlights to note:

  • Partner is clearly designated
  • Partner logo is on the left to clearly indicate a sponsored post
  • Providing links to the utilized tags (which go to their normal tag pages, not part of the ad) provides transparency on how the ads are being chosen/utilized
  • The native ads follow the same strict criteria required of partners who purchase our banner ads
  • The “Report this ad” link works the same as it always has, and is on every native ad
  • The tag links still lead to tag index pages

FAQ

Why is there not a background color on the ads?

The background color was removed from the early mockup image the moderators saw because it causes issues with readability/accessibility. For accessibility with color contrast and text we use APAC standards. Our minimum is Lc60 for text. NOTE - The image above is just a snippet screen grab, rather than the original file.

When are the native ads coming?

The current plan is to begin sales efforts this month, with the ads going live in January 2026.

What if we feel a specific ad doesn’t belong on a site?

Click the “Report this ad” link and fill in the requested information so the team can review the ad.

Will site ads be relevant to the site they’re posted on?

Yes, they will. (You shouldn't be seeing Java language course advertisements on Pets Stack Exchange, for example.) If you find one that isn’t appropriate, use the “Report this ad” link.

I currently have the ‘reduced ads’ privilege on this site. Will that impact these ads?

No. The “reduced ads” privilege only applies to leaderboard-style ads. More information on this privilege can be found here.

Can we opt out of seeing these ads?

No. Native ads will be displayed to all site users.

Will these ads be on MathOverflow?

No. The company has always had this special arrangement with MathOverflow, and we continue to honor it. Because Native Ads are rolling out only to sites that currently get ads, and MathOverflow does not currently get ads, the site will also not get Native Ads. This aligns with the text of the agreement as posted. If we decide at some future point to change this, we will reach out to MathOverflow, as specified in the agreement, and seek consent prior to doing so.

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    🤮 These "native ads" that look like real content are horrible. I'd even go as far as to say that it's deceptive, just because at a very quick glance, it doesn't clearly look like an ad. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 17:47
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    This was announced to moderators in advance, where I got confirmation that ads will override ignored tags: it is possible to, say, get an ad tagged [dnd-5e-2024] even if you have questions with that tag hidden. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 17:48
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    Are we going to continue using the same report this ad functionality that either doesn’t work or requires so much effort that they never get reported? Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 17:52
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    why does the report dialogue require an image at all? it is linked from a specific ad, so I'd assume you know which ad is involved. and 'appropriate to the site' is surely a joke. tex.se recently had ads for suitcases. what does that have to do with tex? we've also had ads where an accidental click resulting in half a dozen identical tabs opening, which is simply obnoxious. but I don't report them because the effort involved is just not worth it and I don't want to have to download copies of ads to my machine in order to upload them back to you, which I suppose is what would be needed. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 18:47
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    Native ads are, by design, misleading. They are designed to look like content, but are not subject to the same editorial review as the other content. Native advertising is inherently sleezy, as are most of the companies and brands that push it. This will do significant damage to the Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange brands. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 19:31
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    How about a special tag, all caps, extra large bold font, eg: ADVERTISEMENT Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 19:33
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    In the example screenshot, the "Ad" and "Sponsored" labels have a luminance contrast ratio of 3.8:1, which is below the WCAG's AA minimum threshold of 4.5:1. (The AAA guideline requires a minimum of 7:1.) Please fix this for accessibility. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 20:48
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    Also, boo for interstitial ads. I understand and even support to a large extent advertising on free sites (like Stack Overflow). However, you should always place ads in sidebars, headers, and footers where they belong. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 21:12
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    These ads will not be visible to people who arrive at a Stack Exchange question from searching the Web. So the target audience is people searching Stack Exchange websites directly. Aren't these people usually looking to answer questions or otherwise contribute? Are volunteers the target audience of the ads? Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 21:40
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    Wow, this is awful. I hope my adblockers work on it. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 23:07
  • 72
    You say "so we can continue to be a source of human-verified truth in an ever-increasing AI-influenced world", but you also keep pushing AI on SO. How about you stop trying to shoehorn AI into SO so that you can "continue to be a source of human-verified truth in an ever-increasing AI-influenced world"? Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 3:59
  • 130
    From a $1.8 billion dollar acquisition to desperate enough to run native ads. The company was never worth that much, but pivoting from an increasingly rare strength (expert human answers) to a highly competitive weakness (mediocre AI features) sure didn't help. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 5:55
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    "It also allows us to bring new ideas to fruition so we can continue to be a source of human-verified truth in an ever-increasing AI-influenced world." Your post really didn't need that sentence. It hasn't been even a week since you pushed AI Assist feature on the network and spammed everyone with its inbox notification. If it weren't for users fighting tooth and nail against AI features we would have them popping out of every corner including user posted content and AI bot answers. So this sentence sounds a bit disingenuous when you are talking about pushing rather deceptive ads to the sites. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 19:19
  • 85
    Yet another announcement with a score below -100 about a new feature which will go ahead regardless of what we say. At what point should we vote to close all of these announcements as "does not appear to seek input and discussion from the community"? It's clear these announcements generate a lot of discussion and feedback, but also clear that SO, Inc. do not seek that discussion and feedback, and don't care about it whatsoever. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:29
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    the team worked very hard to make the ads feel like a part of the site That's sort of like saying, "Mosquitoes work hard — they've actually evolved an anesthetic which they inject — so that you won't feel the prick when they insert their proboscis under your skin to suck your blood." The more different the ads look, the better. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 22:26

45 Answers 45

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Native ads, by definition, are designed to look and feel like a natural addition to a site. As you can see in the image below, the team worked very hard to make the ads feel like a part of the site

That's the problem. A tiny bit of grayscale text saying "Sponsored" does not count as clearly delineating advertisement content and actual content. You are sacrificing the reputation and reliability of the network by presenting ads in the same style as actual content instead of them being clearly distinct.

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    It's clearly a disguise to get our clicks at all cost. It's only a matter of time until StackOveflow start showing popups with ads on clicks anywhere. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 10:30
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    The only click they'll be getting is 'Report this ad'. Every ad is spam if you try and hide it amongst regular content. Commented Dec 16, 2025 at 8:48
  • 13
    Experts Exchange V2, here we come! Commented Dec 16, 2025 at 9:52
262

When this was previously announced to moderators, the native ads had a background that was a different color.

There was feedback that this color was not different enough; it was so near to white that depending on monitor it might not be perceptible as non-white.

Since then, apparently it was just decided to keep no background difference and to make the ad less distinguishable rather than more distinguishable from real content.

Look, I understand there is pressure to make more revenue from ads, but this is the kind of thing that frustrates me about a site and makes me stop using it. If you trick me once and I accidentally click on an ad I didn't realize was an ad, you got your click and lost your user.

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    Maybe it's a short-term vs. long-term thing. In the short-term it might generate some additional income at the cost of income in the long run. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 5:20
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    I bet in half a year's time the ads will blend in even better - the "ad" annotation will be gone, the "logo" will blend in, the "sponsored" text grey-on-grey and hard to notice and the entire thing will look like a normal - if generic - question... until you click it, then you'll get half a dozen pop ups. And of course it will be implemented, because, this is not even a "request for feedback" (which staff would ignore anyway) but a "here's the crap we'll shove down your throat" statement. It took a full blown moderation strike to stop the inane "we love LLMs" policy, this one nobody can stop. Commented Dec 11, 2025 at 16:07
  • @CharonX That might be why they wanted to put user avatars in the questions list ─ so that the logos in native ads would not make them visibly different. Commented Dec 15, 2025 at 11:41
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    @CharonX as long as it has a distinctive CSS, there will always be tools to change how it looks. Commented Dec 16, 2025 at 9:25
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    @JohnDvorak Naturally - but that adds another hoop users need to jump through. Unless it gets packaged into one of the default "adblock" packages (instead of being a specialised script/whatever) people would need to be tech-savvy and willing enough to do it - and the "normal" user might simply be pushed away from SE instead. Commented Dec 16, 2025 at 10:58
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution if you believe this company's management even understands the concept of "long-term", I've got a bridge to sell you. Commented Dec 17, 2025 at 13:10
  • @IanKemp-SEkilledbyLLMs maybe they understand, but just don't give a s**t. Perhaps it's just a matter of their goals being different from those of the community. Commented Dec 24, 2025 at 18:32
187

Echoing a comment here - adverts that look like SE content looks awful and can be potentially misleading.

If we are to have adverts, they need to be very clearly differentiated from the surrounding content.

The screenshot above is very much a surprise to us mods as it was to the rest of the members here, the mock-up was changed.

Due to the unique way in which Stack Teams works (which hosts the moderator teams content), any questions that are edited do not get bumped to the top - every question is ordered by the date of creation, not modification. This is the default sort order on Stack Teams, it can be overridden, but people miss doing that. In essence, the updated mock-up pictures were added by stealth and without anyone being alerted there was a change. I suspect that the change was made in good faith, but the way the platform works, no one would see the change unless they happened to open a question that's way down the page. Hence, no one knew to offer feedback for the updated image.

There was feedback in the moderator space that the adverts looked too much like the surrounding content and weirdly, this has been changed to make them look more like the surrounding content.

Changes of the mock-up from what the moderators fed back to:

What moderators saw in mock-up v1 What we fed back What we ended up with
Adverts had a shaded background so that they were clearly different to the surrounding content The shading was too light, wasn't clear enough and needed to be darker The shading was removed. The speech bubble that used to say "Differently shaded background" has also been removed
The icon on the adverts was on the right hand side of the advert, making it obvious this content was different to the rest of the SE content. Text was also shifted to the left, making the difference even clearer This was fine, no complaints on this Icon was moved to the left, resulting in content that had the same layout as the rest of the SE content
Version 1 had a speech bubble pointing at the advert labelled "No deceptive behaviour" This was fine, no complaints on this This speech bubble has been removed. Possibly because there's an implicit admission that because the adverts now look very similar to SE content, the adverts could now be seen as "deceptive"

In the previous mock-up, it was clear that the adverts were adverts, and now ambiguity and uncertainty seems to have been baked in.

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    There needs to be more 🤢, 🤮, 😠, and 😡, but yes. Misleading ads are awful. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 17:51
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    Yes. Not being deceived by ads is one of the draws of these sites. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 17:52
  • 2
    The ads have a logo, but I don't think that's sufficient. Maybe a different background tint would help, although that has to be done carefully or the text can become unreadable to those with colour vision difficulties. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 18:05
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    I think the tags are the thing I hate the most. They act like camouflage, helping the ads blend in. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 18:06
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    To Stack Exchange, the fact that they are misleading, is a feature, not a bug. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 3:58
  • @RobbyCornelissen to SE the ads are money, for the advertisers the fact that they are misleading is good marketing, not a bug. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 10:01
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    And that's kind of a thing here. We got asked for feedback, the feedback was acknowledged - then the company didn't follow the feedback, making things worse rather than better. So, what's the value of our feedback? Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 11:03
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    "Due to the unique way in which Stack Teams works (which hosts the moderator teams content), any questions that are edited do not get bumped to the top - every question is ordered by the date of creation, not modification." – Minor note: You can change the sort of the Questions list from Newest to Active (or Bountied, Unanswered, etc.), just like you can on regular SE network sites – and it does remember whatever sort option you last selected, just as on the SE network – but the default sort is Newest, as you describe. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 15:55
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    @Snow Definitely done in good faith. My apologies to the mods, I had assumed the lack of additional feedback meant the mods felt that the logo being moved to the left side of the post instead of the right was clear enough. That's on me. I've been (and still am) in the process of gathering the feedback to all of this and passing it on. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 16:44
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    @Dalmarus no blame intended here, and thank you for listening to the feedback. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 16:46
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    @Dalmarus Does the "Done in good faith" also cover the "They told us that the shading was too light, wasn't clear enough and needed to be darker so we removed it instead making it even worse"? Sorry, based on Snow post I don't thing there was much good faith when handling those concerns. Not only did the company do nothing to improve the issues that were pointed out, it even go the extra mile to worsen them . Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 12:40
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    @ꓢPArcheon From what I can see, the design team opted to move the advert logo to the left to make it more obvious that it's an advert. With this done, they decided that the background shading was no longer needed, so it was removed. Personally, moving the logo made the advert look more like the surrounding content and less like an advert. It would be pretty good if I could include the previous version of the mock-up in my answer (or the source question) so that the differences could be seen by everyone. I doubt I'd be allowed to share that image though. Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 14:05
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    @Snow “the design team opted to move the advert logo to the left to make it more obvious that it's an advert. With this done, they decided that the background shading was no longer needed, so it was removed” — Since the logo move quite unambiguously made it less obvious that it’s an ad, this feels very much like a kind of ex post facto rationalisation that I cannot find any way to describe as being ‘in good faith’ on their part. If the design team cares about accessibility and UX, neither of those changes will have been their choice to begin with. Commented Dec 15, 2025 at 16:12
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    Either that, or the design team were directly told by the brass that they had to make it look more like regular content, and they opted to keep their jobs rather than push back too much… Commented Dec 15, 2025 at 23:02
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    With English being read left to right, that's why the team felt it made the ad more obvious than leaving it on the left, along with it replacing the spot where vote counts/options would normally be. Commented Dec 16, 2025 at 19:57
164

It should be very clear that ads are ads, not questions

"Tricking" users into reading the ads by disguising them as questions is probably about as shady as you can get, short of placing unmoderated spam on the site.

  • Make the background a different colour. This will more clearly indicate that it is something different. For obvious reasons, the background colour should also be different from the favourited tags' background colour
  • Respect ignored tags - If I've ignored , why should I see ads tagged with ? That does your ad partners a disservice too, as its extremely unlikely I'll be interested in anything to do with Python
  • By the same token, ad partners should have the same "5 tag" restriction as questions. Otherwise, ads will just end up being tagged with the top 40 tags every time.
  • Give 10k+ users tool pages to review ads placed against tags. Ad moderation should be proactive, not reactive. Put the power in the community's hands to apply some level of moderation on the sorts of ads that appear on certain tags.

These changes would be a massive improvement, though I will say I still don't like this idea at all. Build a merch shop and I'll purchase shirts from you instead.

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    I'm tempted to put a bounty on the merch shop idea. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 1:20
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    @JourneymanGeek I'm honestly surprised they haven't done this already. And all it would take is partnering with one of the various online services that can print tees, hats, mugs, etc. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 1:44
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    Considering the average medium sized youtuber seems to manage it, I'm a little surprised how hard its been for them to work it out. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 2:18
  • Perhaps you got it backwards about the ignored tags, friend. If you ‘re looking for C# questions, and you get the add about Python, then the add will be easier to ignore. That’s a good thing for you. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 17:00
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    @Robotnik Re: the blocked tag portion, I do have an answer for that from the mod preview post - "At launch, confirmed you'd still see the ad. For after initial launch, it may get blocked, but unlikely due to limitations on the amount of data sent via the ad request. Since you brought it up though, it's now part of the conversation." Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 18:08
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    @NickAlexeev I have said it before at some point, but I am not against ads, in general, I dislike ads that are animated, that are irrelevant, that displace the content of the page (why I'm against this particular incarnation), or that try to trick the user or pretend to be something theyre not (fake download buttons etc). Ads that are thoughtful, relevant in context, and constructive/helpful? Good! Great even! Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:44
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    @Dalmarus Someone saying that ad filtering is unlikely due to "limitations on the amount of data" has to be one of the funniest things I've read in awhile. Commented Dec 11, 2025 at 15:58
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    I got a moderator hat once upon a time that got lost in a move. Wish I could get that back! Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 19:41
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    “"Tricking" users into reading the ads by disguising them as questions is probably about as shady as you can get, short of placing unmoderated spam on the site.” — But disguising ads as questions in the way suggested here is placing unmoderated spam on the site, just of a kind that users can’t easily vote/flag to get rid of (so actually a lot worse than regular unmoderated spam). Commented Dec 15, 2025 at 16:16
  • @JourneymanGeek blatant management incompetence. Commented Dec 17, 2025 at 13:12
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The native ads follow the same strict criteria required of partners who purchase our banner ads

What are these criteria?

Are they the same criteria that permitted this ad on one of the sites I moderate?:

Image of a misleading ad with button-styled text like "Print", a PDF icon, and a "Download button", originally presented on Psychology & Neuroscience Stack Exchange

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    Same process as current ads. I'm not sure when the above ad popped up (hopefully it was reported), but keep in mind that processes have already been tightened across the network to make troublesome ads less likely. As always though, if you come across an ad you feel is not appropriate (or even just not appropriate for the site it showed up on), be sure to use the Report This Ad link so it can be investigated. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 20:29
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    @Dalmarus The report ad function is extremely annoying. Unacceptably so, in my mind (I need an IMAGE of the ad? come on). I'm sure I at least attempted to report it, and also raised the issue in multiple other places, but don't remember if there was any return communication about it. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 20:44
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    Apparently here I did report that I was able to report it: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/404116/… But "report ad" should be an absolute last resort. Visitors to the website aren't going to bother reporting ads, they're just going to go away. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 20:45
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    Thanks for the feedback (genuinely). I'll pass that on to the team that handles the ad reports. If I get confirmation changes to that system are being worked on (or definitively will be in the future), I'll let you know. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 20:49
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    @Dalmarus Thanks, I appreciate it (also genuinely)! Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 20:55
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    I asked the team about the report ads and while no promise or potential timeline was shared, there are ideas being discussed on how to potentially improve the system in the future. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:43
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    Here's what they were able to tell me: Sometimes ads can be broken for different reasons, either on our side from HTML/CSS/JS changes on the site, or from accidents in our processes like uploading a Creative image with the wrong pixel density (Or even the wrong image), or from issues with targeting like accidentally showing the ad in the wrong language for the region. The screenshot (in theory) increases the chance that we can actually identify the specific issue a user is seeing, when combined with the description they provide. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:43
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    @Dalmarus I understand why it could be useful to them. I would like to somehow to convey to them that someone already irritated by an ad likely does not want to jump through a bunch of extra hoops to report it, and presenting those hoops makes it seem like they'd just prefer you not report at all. If I am not reporting an issue with HTML/CSS or the wrong pixel density or whatever, I'm reporting that an ad is a scam, I shouldn't have to provide a screenshot for you to be able to know whose ad it was and investigate. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:48
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    I'll pass it on, verbatim, right now. Thanks. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:04
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    @Dalmarus Sorry to keep pinging you here after you've already promised to pass on what I've said. It occurred to me to consider why it is that I find this so frustrating, and I think I figured it out: When I report an ad, I'm not asking you to fix something for me. Like, I don't need the ad repaired, it's not a feature for me. I'm letting you know that your own car has a racist bumper sticker. If you're stopping to ask me, well, did you get a picture of it? Were there serifs? Should it be a higher resolution? etc, I'm going to assume you already know and don't want to change it. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 15:48
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    My expectation would be instead that you would be horrified to know that this bumper sticker is there and that you'd be immediately making your own effort to go around to the back of the car and see what I'm seeing and that you'd be thankful that someone let you know rather than just assuming that you're a website that supports this kind of ad. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 15:50
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    No worries at all. It's precisely what I'm here for ;). I'll pass this on as well (the team knows, but writing out the clear thought process like you did here is good to have as a reminder). Thanks. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 16:20
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    Nothing I love more than having to walk the tightrope of clicking on the malicious ad or the itty-bitty "Report ad" link imposed over it. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 16:34
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    @Dalmarus For what it's worth, it seems like flagging ads that may be violating guidelines might be a very good use case for an AI solution. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 22:25
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    @maxathousand I don't think there exists an AI which can do that. They are too stupid. The other week, we had a case where ChatGPT couldn't tell the difference between Buckingham Palace, Trafalgar Square and the US Capitol building. So that's what the current "bleeding edge" AI is worth. Maybe it can tell the difference between a dog picture and the US Capitol but I wouldn't count on it... Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 7:59
81

I've seen things that indicate that network activity, like visitors, new questions, and new answers is trending downward. Although I recognize the need to make money for the platform and services, I see this as the kind of change that could drive people away even more. It may not be a huge numerical impact, but it seems unwise to introduce any kind of change that would have a negative impact on activity without doing things to drive that activity up in other ways.

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    Yes. They have been working on finding ways to increase activity—and the first sentence in the OP might have been referring to that—but I imagine it's important to keep focus on the kinds of activity that continue to draw more people in, as opposed to people's last engagements before they give up and go away. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 18:58
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    @DanGetz It doesn't matter what they are working on. They haven't shipped anything that has led to an improvement (at least on the three sites where I'm a moderator and have access to analytics). Yet they are going to ship something that is likely to hurt engagement and cause harm to activity. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 19:24
  • 2
    That's always the problem with ads. Nobody likes them except that they may pay for the service. Somewhere there must be an optimum where the inconvenience is just about tolerable. Is this it? Your guess is a good as mine. They might be shooting themselves in the foot there. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 5:22
  • 1
    @NoDataDumpNoContribution Discord solved that issue without needing to shove ads everywhere. If they offered some extra features under a sub things would go way better than making the site worse. Heck, even an implementation like Server Boosts from Discord would be a better option - If you let people choose to pay a couple bucks per month to give their favorite stacks some perks, it wouldn't be half as bad as this. Commented Dec 22, 2025 at 11:40
  • @T.Sar they have shoved ads everywhere… you just don’t notice them because they are displayed in a native way. Commented Dec 22, 2025 at 16:08
  • @user400654 On Discord? Not at all. Discord has way less ads than any other social software. Mostly because of Nitro - you don't need to be super aggressive on ads if people are paying a sub to use your software. Commented Dec 23, 2025 at 11:59
  • @T.Sar Yes, it's certainly less than most, but nitro ads are literally on every inch of that platform. Commented Dec 23, 2025 at 15:32
  • @user400654 Our experience seems to be vastly different. Maybe because I'm a nitro subscriber myself? Commented Dec 23, 2025 at 16:41
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If I can't block ads, I will stop contributing to the network.

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    The moment SO get advantage in ads-vs-adblockers war (this move is clearly an attempt), I'll seriously consider to stop using SO. It might be more fun to join Reddit or help people in GitHub, than to see how company is running countles failed attempts to win more new audience and forgetting completely about having me already on-board. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 10:49
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    @Sinatr I don't think even SO are delusional enough to think they will bypass ad blocking for in-page HTML ads like this. To me this just seems like a way to show more ads per page. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 17:55
75

These types of ads are extremely deceptive, being designed specifically to misinform users into believing that they are legitimate questions and manipulate them into taking an action that they would not have taken otherwise. The disclaimers have extremely poor contrast, below that of accessibility guidelines, which is designed to reduce the chance that people will notice it before they try to open it. The background is also identical to that of normal questions, further deceiving users.

Far from increasing engagement, this will markedly decrease engagement as new users leave the site the moment they find out that they were being manipulated and taken advantage of.

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    Snagging this from another comment response I posted above. I just used a snippet screen grab for the image above. Thanks for the callout. Here's the info provided by the designer since it's probably just showing differently from my system - "we're using #6B6D73 for the "sponsored by" and "ad" text which has an Lc76 on white background and 5.17 : 1 ratio for WCAG" Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 18:23
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    @Dalmarus Whether or not it ends up meeting the absolute minimum accessibility guidelines doesn't change the fact that the contrast is intentionally low in order to mislead users. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:49
69

SE had very reasonable ads in the past, compared to the usual internet standards. The ads got more flashy and annoying over time, but still better than on many sites. This change is pushing the ad freqency up quite a bit. Assuming a 15 item page size, this increases ads on question list pages from 2 (sidebar) to a total of 5 ads per page.

It's still better than a lot of sites, but that's only because ads are often outright terrible on many sites. So I don't think that is the standard that should apply here.

The core idea behind Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network is to prioritize the signal-to-noise ratio of our content. Ads are by definition not signal, they're noise. You're adding a significant amount of noise to the site, and there will be a point where this compromises the usefulness of the Q&A system. Doesn't help if we offer concise and high quality answers to specific questions if you have to wade through tons of ads to get there.

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    I'm not worried about the ads, it's the user tracking that comes with them that has me concerned. Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 23:47
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    "Doesn't help if we offer concise and high quality answers to specific questions if you have to wade through tons of ads to get there." And that may even limit the additional revenue. I'm sure there is an optimal amount of ads for maximal revenue and beyond that customers are simply going elsewhere. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 5:19
61

The “reduced ads” privilege only applies to leaderboard-style ads.

Leaderboard-style ads being horizontal strips shown in the main (central) column of the site?

Old Help Centre image, showing horizontal "leaderboard-style" ad regions in red.

These native ads are clearly leaderboard-style ads, for the purposes of the “reduced ads” privilege. It should apply to these, too.

Users with enough reputation to have earned the “reduced ads” privilege are the reason anyone's looking at these ads. Exposing them to irritants is an exceptionally short-sighted move, just from a naïve profit-seeking perspective.

It is a rational profit-seeking move if you think the network's got absolutely no future, and pennies now is worth thousands later. But I really hope you don't think this.

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    See also: The arrows in the image of "reduce ads" privilege help article is confusing Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 18:04
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    The sad thing is, that those who are driving the site into the ground will never have to take any blame, since they will just say that AI killed demand and that's why nobody uses Stack Overflow any more. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:21
  • @kaya3 Super late reply, but the frustrating part is that LLMs are killing demand (and arguably breaking the internet), yet instead of downsizing Stack Overflow to a scale that can actually survive, they are desperately clinging to metrics from the past: ad revenue, user visits, and engagement levels that right now are not realistic. Rather than conserving cash to weather a turbulent transition, they are burning money building their own LLM chatbot, something that is about as far from their core competency as possible (especially given that on-site search has historically been crap). Commented Dec 26, 2025 at 14:22
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Native ads, by definition, are designed to look and feel like a natural addition to a site.

This is a preternaturally honest statement. It means that native ads are designed to look like they are part of the site, meaning that they deserve as much trust as the rest of the site, and can be clicked on as freely as the rest of the site.

In other words, they are designed to trick people into clicking on them; they are designed to override people's inbuilt filters that discriminate between "this is site content that I'm here for" versus "these are some other thing that someone else wants me to see even though I don't."

In other words, they siphon value from the trust people have built up over the years. It's an effective strategy — in the short run. (It's not the same, but I'm reminded of the sorry practice of asset stripping.)

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    It's a pity that the only solution is to make a product more useless in order to make it more profitable. The longer I think about it, the more I think that in the future there will be different solutions for this. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 13:18
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution I think the only real solution is community ownership ─ if a site is owned and operated by the community of people who use it, they will not choose to make it worse for themselves. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:17
57

I assume that ads are not going to be displayed on MathOverflow, as per the terms of the agreement, see eg https://meta.mathoverflow.net/a/4296/ regarding ads, but also What is MathOverflow's "agreement" with Stack Exchange? for the full text of the agreement. The relevant paragraph is:

  1. It is understood that MathOverflow shall consider in the future the placement of certain announcement serices like job listing in the future. Stack Exchange shall not run advertisements, including internal advertisements, on MathOverflow 2.0 (or any subsequent version thereof), without specific and advance written consent of the MathOverflow.

I, speaking in my personal capacity and not as an MO moderator, would consider SE Inc running ads on MathOverflow in violation of the agreement as a reason to leave the network. This is not personal preference or bucking against SE changes for the sake of it, but a legal contract between SE Inc and MO.

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    Interesting arrangement. Who are the legal representatives of MO currently? Do you know by chance? Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 5:30
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution I am on the board of the MathOverflow corporation, along with the other current moderators, some past moderators, etc. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 6:35
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    For context, MO was originally a separate website, that just so happened to use the SO software/model in parallel for a few years from late 2009, and then migrated onto the SE platform, with a decent agreement to preserve a measure of independence. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 6:44
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    Looks like a sensible agreement. MathOverflow could then go its own ways if it wanted to, I presume. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 8:40
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution cf meta.mathoverflow.net/questions/5669/… Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 9:32
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    @DavidRoberts I (personally) would also assume that MathOverflow would be exempt for the reasons you listed out, but I'll find out for sure and report back here (probably later in the day due to timezones and the people involved. Thanks for flagging! Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 14:38
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    @DavidRoberts I reached out to Philippe, our SVP Communities, to ask about this, and he said: "The company has always had this special arrangement with Math Overflow, and we continue to honor it. Because Native Ads are rolling out only to sites that currently get ads, and Math Overflow does not currently get ads, the site will also not get Native Ads. This aligns with the text of the agreement as posted. If we decide at some future point to change this, we will reach out to Math Overflow, as specified in the agreement, and seek consent prior to doing so." Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 18:56
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    I'll update the FAQ in the post with a Q&A pair for this as well. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 18:56
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    @Dalmarus but I hope that the fact I wasn't sure (and that we weren't told up-front) sends a signal about the level of trust in the company at present. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:02
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    @DavidRoberts Loud and clear. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:09
  • I wish StackOverflow corp will have similar agreement with StackExchange corp. Unfortunately those are the same company. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 10:42
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    @Dalmarus I can't help noticing that Philippe's answer very carefully did not state that MO isn't getting ads because MO was promised it won't get ads. It seems the only reason it isn't getting ads is because "Native Ads are rolling out only to sites that currently get ads, and Math Overflow does not currently get ads". Was this intentional? It feels very sneaky and a prelude to actually putting ads on the site as soon as you start rolling them out to other sites that currently don't have any. Can the company not simply state that it is indeed going to abide by what it agreed to? Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 11:08
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    @terdon We thought that was clearly stated as is. The phrasing was written that way to indicate MO was never part of the Native Ads discussion because there are no ads on the site. This was not some sidelined way to say they'd be coming. As Philippe stated, the company is and will continue to follow the agreement. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 16:27
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    Excellent, thanks @Dalmarus. Sorry to push but since the previous wording was ambiguous and given the very good reasons we all have to distrust SE, I wanted to be sure. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 17:17
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    @terdon No problem. Apologies for any confusion. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 17:22
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The “reduced ads” privilege only applies to leaderboard-style ads.

How much marginal viewership of these ads do you expect to get from making these always visible to users who have earned the privilege to hide ads? Given the exponential/log-like distribution of reputation across the userbase (not even mentioning those who don't have an account), is this decision worth annoying people who opt out of ads by their earned privilege?

... To be up front, I feel unhappy that you have decided not to honour the privilege to opt out of ads. I'm going to block these ads to the fullest extent possible anyway, so I don't expect your decision here to be material to myself, but I'm still unhappy that this is what you decided to do.

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    Especially since they are (presumably), just the people you rely on to create content. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 6:39
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    And how many users do you predict to lose as a result? Is the loss worth it? Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 20:02
  • @user1937198 you really think they've done any sort of analysis in that regard? Commented Dec 17, 2025 at 13:13
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    @IanKemp-SEkilledbyLLMs of course not Commented Dec 17, 2025 at 13:34
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I am all for ads - I have repeatedly said that this is the only viable way to fund the site in the long run. But please don't slip them in with the Q&A posts, keep them on the side panels.

And please curate ads before they hit the site. There's a great potential value in targeted ads of products that are actually relevant to for example programmers - you can sell such ads for much more and the potential for recurring advertisers is much greater.

Instead of begging the scammer company "Google Ads" for a pittance, in order to display their snake oil/pornographic/animated trash on the sites. Every living soul on the Internet has nothing but bad experience from Google Ads. "Report this ad" - no, that's your job as the publisher. If there are inappropriate ads like for example giving dangerous medical advice, we should report them indeed. To the police.

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    Overall - I'm so tired of this. Whenever there is a new feature or decision to be made, can the company please make a minimum of effort to not always aim for the stereotype: yet another soulless, evil US private company? Could you just once avoid looking at the countless trash sites out there for inspiration of how to turn this site into a trash site too? Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 7:59
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    I wholeheartedly agree here, we have like empty panels right and left, and the ads shall now be used when the questions are? This is - Shocking - to put it mildly. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 11:30
  • @Lundin why would you expect anything different from a company run by a soulless, evil US CEO? Commented Dec 17, 2025 at 13:14
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Let me be frank with you here @Dalmarus

We all recall the forced-attention-grabbing ADs - the neon green flashing, animated, noise emitting, "punch the monkey" ads that were often the final straw for those users still on the fence regarding adblocking.

The thing you call "Native ADs" is - while less overtly aggressive - even worse, in a sense, because it poses as genuine content, only to be an ad instead.

There is already a name for advertising content that tries to blend in as "normal" content in order to increase click rates: SPAM

So, simply said, you will deliberately post SPAM on SE. And while it might - temporarily - boost your revenue for a few weeks, I must ask you: How dumb do you think your users are? Because adding those kind of concealed "You thought this was a question, but clicked on an AD, LOL" traps on the website are NOTHING but a negative experience for the user - driving genuine users away, worse, driving those away that might try to genuinely answer your questions.

This is a terrible idea for the users (because it is a pure worsening of their experience), this is a terrible idea for the website (because it drives away users), and this is a terrible idea for you (because once the users are driven away your metrics will look even worse). For sanity's sake, don't do it!

Edit: Here's a mockup of the type of ads I'm certain we will see sooner or later: Company name *51 asked 3hr ago (a flimsy disguise - and if clicks to shady sites is the goal a recognisable name is a liability) and as a logo is the + sign followed by the number 712 in an off-grey colour (perfectly blending in with the vote counter). I don't like that future. MyWonderfulMockup

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If advertisers wish their advertisements to 'blend in' to the sites on which they are shown, I do not think the 'native ads' described in this post go far enough.

To blend in properly with other questions, such pseudo-questions should behave in the same way as regular questions. Members should be able to

  • vote them up or down;
  • vote to close or delete them;
  • mark them as duplicates;
  • edit them;
  • flag them.

Both pseudo-questions and their authors should be subject to moderation and sanctions in the same way as authors of other questions.

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    In particular, almost all such ads should be immediately closed and deleted for violating the community's standards. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:19
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    @kaya3 Well, perhaps. But that is really in the hands of the ads' authors. If they make them compelling enough, that might not be the community's reaction. And, after all, that would presumably be in advertisers interests. (Or maybe not since it seems that having your ads almost universally hated doesn't deter people from paying for them. I'm actually quite curious how this works out. I mean in general. I'm not so curious I want to find out experimentally.) Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 23:21
44

I'm not inherently against a website using ads to earn money. But...

  1. The ads are specifically targeting contributors to the site. Those who are looking over the list of questions to help improve them or provide answers. The people who are holding your site up on their shoulders. Those are the group of people you don't want to be targeting with your ads.
  2. You've been gradually increasing the flashiness and quantity of ads over time. When is it going to stop? Yes, it means you can hire more people, but more people to do what? Create things like "discussions"? Or your AI chat bots (which in turn is just another ad)? Given the choice, I'm sure most of the community would rather Stack Overflow have fewer features with less ads.

I'm seeing this happen all over the place - websites that used to have a moderate amount of ads realized that they've got a monopoly on their niche and have the power to ramp up their ads, so they start doing it, more and more and more, turning the site into an absolute mess. It's this kind of behaviour that encouraged me to start using an ad blocker, after trying to avoid it for such a long time (I want to support the sites I use, but it's been getting unrealistic).

It's also this kind of behaviour that alienates your userbase from you - when a new, better competitor comes up, the more ads you use, the quicker people will be to jump ship and flee to the competitor product.

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    This is a very well reasoned, and well written objection. Especially the first point In my honest opinion, and especially the "when a new better competitor comes up" (..) I agree wholeheartedly, thank you for posting this! Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 14:47
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we’d be doing a disservice to ourselves and you by not trying to find responsible means of maximizing that revenue

Mingling ads into content in a way that makes them look like content is a very short-term strategy for revenue. This will be very harmful to the usefulness and reputation of Stack Overflow, and will turn people away from the site forever.

I guess the higher-ups figure that Stack Overflow is going down the drain anyway, so they might as well squeeze as much as possible out of it while they still can. It's a shame.

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    My thoughts exactly. When all of this started, we've tried to think of it as incompetence (applying Hanlon's razor) - which would have been a shame, while leaving hope that the company would learn -, but now it becomes apparent that this course has been set intentionally. It is no longer imaginable that the decision-makers don't know where this is going. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:59
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    Full agreement with the last paragraph. I thought so too. Once traffic starts to go down, one may think that that's it and there will be no reversal ever anyway. Then the only question is how to get the most out of the traffic for as long (or short) that it lasts, which is different from a typical more long-term oriented business. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 6:21
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    SE has sadly now arrived at the "eating the seed corn" stage. Attempting to squeeze out as much money as possible - and if the the site suffers long term... well, management already got their bonus, and they might even have sold it off to someone else Commented Dec 11, 2025 at 16:17
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The background color was removed from the early mockup image the moderators saw because it causes more issues with readability/accessibility.

Okay, but now you're violating WCAG 2.2 Success Criterion 1.4.11 Non-text Contrast. SC 1.4.3 has an exception for "incidental" material (which would include native ads), but SC 1.4.11 has no such exception. Both are level AA. Given this, SC 1.4.11 takes precedence, and you should revert to your previous design at minimum.


Additionally, native advertisements that take you off Stack Exchange violate Success Criterion 3.2.5 Change on Request. This is level AAA, but I personally do need this. Not having it makes me viscerally averse to interacting with the computer system, in a way that I cannot compensate for; and makes it difficult for me to concentrate when I am interacting with it, because a large portion of my attention is involuntarily occupied keeping track of any system feature that might result in a change of context, and modelling the destination contexts.

I suspect that this accessibility need is overrepresented in your contributor population, making it higher priority than the average level AAA SC. Given that this behaviour is central to the current Native Ads proposal (as opposed to design changes, which are half a month's work and can be done at the end), and also has security implications, I think it's rather urgent.


These days, it seems that you're constantly bringing up "accessibility" as an excuse for objectively bad design decisions. Frankly, I'm fed up with it. Do better.

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  • The lightest text color used will be #6B6D73 (found on the "sponsored by" and "ad" text) which has an Lightness contrast of 76 (APAC) and 5.17 : 1 ratio (WCAG). The colors likely appear a bit different if taken from the uploaded image in this post. Stacks aims to meet the APAC standards for color contrast. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:12
  • 3.2.5 specifically says: "Changes of context are initiated only by user request or a mechanism is available to turn off such changes." That point seems specific to how/when the context is changed, not that it is changed at all. We only take the user offsite when they click an ad. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:13
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    @Carrott The Understanding Success Criterion 3.2.5 guidance says "This success criterion aims to eliminate potential confusion that may be caused by unexpected changes of context such as automatic launching of new windows, automatic submission of forms after selecting an item from a list, etcetera." (emphasis mine). A user deliberately selecting an ad, such as in the sidebar, is one thing; a user intending to navigate to a question in the questions list, and instead navigating off-site, is entirely different. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:16
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    This Success Criterion relates to user expectation. You can say "well they clicked on an ad", but this only works if they know it's an ad, which requires the ad to be obviously distinct from posts, as seen through all modalities (including all screen readers). Again: "The intent of this success criterion is to encourage design of web content that gives users full control of changes of context." (emphasis mine). It doesn't matter how high-contrast the "Ad" label is, if the user didn't saccade to it before clicking. That contrast is necessary, but insufficient. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:22
  • (@Carrott I feel the need to clarify: you, personally, are not the target of the last part of my answer. I appreciate the work you do, and how you usually respond quickly and well to criticism like my answer, and it's not your fault if you don't magically know stuff that your employer hasn't trained you on. That also goes for other people on the design team who are less active on meta. It's a company-wide (nay, industry-wide) problem, and you're the people working to make it less of a problem, not the people who should be blamed for the problem's existence.) Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:26
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    @Carrott WCAG is not intended to be lawyered over like this, but here's another bit that supports my interpretation: "The change in the content in this case is initiated by user request when they click on the link, but unless the user can be aware that the link will open in a new window then that change of context cannot be regarded as user-initiated." (emphasis mine). I hadn't read this document before: I just understand the basic underlying principles of digital accessibility, and I trust that the WCAG people will have put at least everything I understand into WCAG 2.2 somewhere. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:35
  • My point about "all modalities (including all screen readers)" is probably better addressed by SC 2.4.4 Link Purpose (In Context) and its AAA counterpart SC 2.4.9 Link Purpose (Link Only). Note that SC 2.4.9 does have an explicit exception such that a SC 2.3.5 violation would not also be a SC 2.4.9 violation, but I don't think you should rely on that. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 21:42
  • I'm still fairly certain that saying this fails 3.2.5 is still quite a bit of a stretch. The underlying concern I'm hearing/seeing here (and other comments) is that the ad isn't obvious enough as an ad. The reason, I assume is so that it's easier to ignore ads (and skim past them quickly) — which I get but unfortunately defeats the whole purpose of their existence. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:24
  • The ad has a "sponsored by" label, a large logo image (very visually different from the other regular list items) and a "report ad" link. We believe that to be enough distinction. I'm happy to include validation for that with research we have planned in the next quarter but still means launching with this version and reviewing all the data after 30-60 days (typically). That will include reviewing how many ads appear on a page at one time as well. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:25
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    @Carrott Having the large logo image is enough that I'd be able to skim past the ads, and I fully expect this to end up in ad-blocking lists within a day of going live. That's not the point. The point is that all users should be able to clearly distinguish this without unnecessary cognitive load (e.g. parsing technicalities of how their screen reader responds to the slightly-different HTML) so they can avoid accidentally navigating off Stack Exchange, and so that the adverts don't interfere too much with curation activities. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:40
  • I don't care about skimming past the ads. I do, actually, look at ads. (Not video ads, because they're obnoxiously slow, but written ones definitely.) If you had a page of "ads that have run on the network", I would actively visit it whenever I was so inclined. I do run a client-side malware blocker, which catches your current ad-serving system, but back in the Adzerk days, I had the Reduce Ads privilege disabled, and configured my browser to allow the ads. (I think I toggled it circa 2019.) I liked seeing them: it's how I learned about Microsoft Azure, which I used for a time. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:44
  • My problem is with obnoxious, privacy-invading, deceptive ads that show sexualised imagery to the people I'm teaching, or try to put malware on my computer. The ship has sailed for regular ads, but it has not yet sailed for this new category of ads. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:47
  • @Carrott That said: "We believe that to be enough distinction." suggests that the purpose of the change wasn't actually accessibility. The last part of this answer is directed at whoever made the decision to pitch this to us as an accessibility change. It is extremely harmful for most people's first impressions of "accessibility" to be stuff like "that thing that made Stack Exchange's advertising more deceptive": I hate that Stack Exchange's communications are contributing to this perception. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:50
  • Lastly, "I'm happy to include validation for that with research we have planned" is only going to test averages. Accessibility is not about catering to averages: it's about designing for everyone, the outliers especially. (I haven't used the new system, true, but I expect I'll be such an outlier. I'll let you know if it's actually fine, but I doubt it will be.) Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 23:05
  • @Carrott A further counterpoint to the "you just want to skim past the ads" claim: my alternative native ads proposal wouldn't require such a visual distinction to satisfy SC 3.2.5, imo. Having the advertiser logo is actually overkill for that, since they are just questions (though I would want something to distinguish "this ad legitimately came up in the list" from "this ad was injected into the list", just for the few instances where that distinction is relevant). Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 23:41
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My 2 cents

I agree with most answers here, in particular with Mithical's answer that:

Native ads, by definition, are designed to look and feel like a natural addition to a site. As you can see in the image below, the team worked very hard to make the ads feel like a part of the site

That's the problem. A tiny bit of grayscale text saying "Sponsored" does not count as clearly delineating advertisement content and actual content. You are sacrificing the reputation and reliability of the network by presenting ads in the same style as actual content instead of them being clearly distinct.

this kind of design makes accidental clicks far more likely, something many(including me, who has difficulty seeing details sometimes) had enough of.

A little diagram to show what this is all about

Casual Loop Diagram


On the ethical part of these "native ads"

  • Is this a good-faith ad?

I wouldn't call ads good faith, if they achieve the following(which the native ads do check)

  • [x] camouflaged (inline ads in questions place)
  • [x] difficulty to adblock (inline ads in questions place)
  • [x] increasing accidental clicks
  • [x] increasing difficulty for people who might have difficulty seeing details (a small, small, gray text "ad")

I don't think this is in "good faith". Which is why its so much more important to at least, try to find ways to fix this not just "do it". Practically? one can just "do it" but - if people can't block the ad without also blocking questions (cuz of "inline/camo ads") - then people might actually leave the site or at least, use it less often. Both of these outcomes = decreased engagement which, ironically speaking, ads is for increased engagement (in some sense).


Why is this a problem?

Because this will make users feel tricked:


In 2 different ways.

  1. (More known) Accidental clicks = hence tricked
  2. (Lesser known) Psychologically = tricked, psychologically(in the context of trust)

I think (1) speaks for itself, but (2) needs expansion: What do I mean by psychologically tricked? Well, trusted, long-term users here, might feel tricked in the sense of, "having built this place through contribution" and then "just to see it get turned into a ad site".


What happens when someone gets tricked?

When users get tricked - They might not like the site as much as they would have before (and, in my honest opinion, should have, because I believe ads can be done, but it has to be done the proper way.)


The goal of Ads - is already to get paid.

The goal of ads is to get paid already, so maximizing it (especially this way) doesn't really make any sense, in my honest opinion. I mean in the sense of making users less likely to want to engage with the site.

Note, one exception where I "am okay" with "Maximizing ads" is: IFF (If and Only If) Its done in a appropriate way.

For example, an AD (imo) which is acceptable (to me) should be:

  1. clear it is an ad.
  2. not intrusive (say, a big ad taking up content).
  3. not malicious in some way ("the user will click more here so place it here").

Note: "malicious" here is a strong word, I know, it's mostly to express how users feel that these ads would be.


The natural reaction is either:

  1. they simply turn on ad-blockers. Not because they dislike the site or the ads, but because they can't reliably tell the difference between real posts and inserted ads. Or
  2. they leave the site or use it less, (less likely if you was here much before, but if you are new? Maybe.)

Analogies

I like analogies because they often explain in a more easy-to-read manner.

Analogy 1:

You go to a site to download a file, and all ads say "Download here!" It becomes very very difficult to see where to click.

Analogy 2:

Imagine we walk into a grocery shop (or some other shop) where half the price tags look identical, except some are actual prices, and some are ads, pretending to be prices(for, maybe a product, which is very "small text" hence "camo ad").

Now..This analogy isn't so good but it hopefully still gets the point across.


Outcome

I guess there really are 2 outcomes:

  1. People continue and is not bothered (which, based on this thread, is not likely.)
  2. People are bothered and either use site less or use adblock or if its very intrusive/problematic ads, leave the site and try to find alternatives - hence doing the opposite of what the goal with the ads was.

Smaller outcome

  • I don't know if this is how it goes but maybe some might get adblock right now just to be prepared, so they don't have to "wait" for some decision, (maybe psychologically? It would be perfectly understandable if people do that).
  • A hypothetical, yet scary (though purely speculative) outcome of this, might be that the decreased engagement, might reach a (critical?) threshold where, its not good for any one (not good for the company, but also not good for the people needing help with programming questions) again, purely speculative. See the diagram above, as it explains the cause n effect already.

Take care!

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    It is baffling how a new user that just joined came to the same exact conclusion that many regular users have been pointing too for a while. Bending the userbase patience like a twig until it breaks will only get more user to revoke whatever amount of good will they had for this network and just start to block everything. Yet this simple truth seems to hard to comprehend for the company. Go ahead Stack Exchange, go ahead Prosus. Continue in what is becoming the longest seppuku in history: the place on the Guinness World Record is yours. Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 8:39
  • another hypothethical point I have but I don't know if I Should include it cuz its so speculative: if the ads is going to be camo ads (not easily ad blocked) then maybe a race would begin? 1) people try to block ads -> 2) company tries more camouflage on the ads -> and so on (note this is a stretch) Commented Dec 13, 2025 at 12:58
  • I thought of a smaller "solution" to this and..It would really just be to do ads in good faith because yeah Commented Dec 13, 2025 at 13:16
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    @Jane That was how it worked originally! Stack Overflow had advertisements, but they would not be distracting. That was the vision of Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky when they founded the site. Commented Dec 15, 2025 at 7:51
  • Ah, thanks! and yes! @S.L.Barthisoncodidact.com Commented Dec 15, 2025 at 13:40
  • @ꓢPArcheon I would argue that it is the opposite of baffling. If someone completely unfamiliar with the specifics walks in and points out the conclusion that the regulars have been dealing with for a while, the problem is clearly something obvious ;) In this case it is just the SE/SO people who actually need to recognize that there is one to begin with... Commented yesterday
  • @controlgroup Yep, that was me being sarcastic. I was precisely pointing out that even relatively new users can see the evident problem in trying to increase ads incomes in a way that will only make more users block all ads in the first place, yet apparently this is simply too hard to grasp for the company big marketing experts. Commented 20 hours ago
  • @controlgroup I am starting to wonder if this constant shooting themselves in the foot isn't deliberate: killing the site while pretending to be working to save it so that the community takes the blame and Evil Inc. may finally shut everything down and walk away with all the site data to sell to the best offer Commented 20 hours ago
28

Let me approach this from a different angle.

You may remember this old post of mine: link. Back then I told you that:

You are not different from the thousand other companies out there doing the same. But this also means you get no "special treatment", you don't get to be the "friend we trust and can make an exception for".

Your ads will be blocked, it doesn't matter if they are 15 second animations, if they use sound, if they try to stalk the users by abusing should-be-illegal-if-not-already hacks so dear to the advertisement world.

Since I posted that answer, not only didn't you reconsider your already not-so-great policies. Today, you managed to get even worse.

So... I have to ask you...
EXACTLY what makes you hope that we won't just block your invasive and now misleading ads like we did so far?
Let me give you an idiotic, stupid, shoot-yourself-in-the-foot suggestion like the ones you always loved in the past few years. Try to implement some server side check that requires viewers to watch animated ads in order to see the answers to a question. This still won't make you much money but could finally end up completely killing of the site and end this pathetic death tantrum spiral that you initiated when you attempted to sacrifice quality for fast money and AI nonsense.

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    I wonder if the entire reason “… the team worked very hard to make the ads feel like a part of the site…” is to make them more difficult to block without also blocking site content. I don’t believe for a second that tags were added for any other reason than to embed the ad into the content like a tick. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 11:35
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    @ColleenV and that would be the final reason to leave the site. But I confide them to not be competent/willing to pay enough to really bypass advanced solutions like umatrix / ublock. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 11:51
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    @ColleenV Furthermore... they have only ONE way to prevent domain based filtering: hosting the ads on their server. In which case we can finally held them legally responsible for the content they serve... I doubt they want to risk that... Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 11:53
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    Sure, but this gets by the easy ad-block extensions. I don’t really browse any of the sites any longer so these ads are no skin off my nose. I typically use an AI agent to search for information these days. What’s depressing is that a lot of the internet is turning into AI slop and SE is pissing away the community willing to donate human-curated knowledge to the world. Someone should start a non-profit focused on the original mission of SO before it became about locking up our content to sell to AI companies and selling our waning engagement to advertisers. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 12:09
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    @ColleenV At the risk of sounding like a broken record... but that's what Codidact.com did. Non-profit, focused on content & community, no genAI. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 9:59
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    @S.L.Barthisoncodidact.com Sometimes you have to be a broken record to get the message in front of the right people at the right time. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 12:47
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    "EXACTLY what makes you hope that we won't just block your invasive and now misleading ads like we did so far?" - This is a well reasoned, and well written objection, really. Also kinda interesting that they chose to propose "inline" ads with questions, like, I don't believe it only was for "accidental clicks increase" but maybe also @ColleenV 's point that, it might be to make it harder to block it, separately. Great points both of you; really! Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 16:34
27

You are increasingly bullying away the people who contribute the most to this website.

Can you imagine, a highly active community users, one of those who've kept this website running for years, will need to 'filter out' the almost impossible to distinguish looking ads, as soon as the third post and then every 5 more?

Please extend the ‘reduced ads’ privilege so that the people who contributed the most (100k+?) won't have to deal with this nonsense.

First interaction - to show an ad?

... at a rate of one ad every five posts, with the first one being slotted between the 2nd and 3rd post of a site.

So after you've added the 3 useless widgets- then the ai-assistant, this has become my current view of the home page on my 14-inch laptop:

enter image description here

So my first interaction with the site IS JUST TO SHOW AN AD?


If I can't block ads, I will stop contributing to the network.

@philipxy's answer - 2025-12-09 02:41:15Z

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    Oh wow that looks pretty bad. I had forgotten about these widgets as I blocked them ages ago, as I did with the LLM trash recently, so my view starts with "Interesting posts for you". I suspect the ads will not get through uMatrix + uBlock Origin; if they do and are not manually blockable then I might just stop browsing SO entirely. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 13:45
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    I assume that "first interaction" is scrolling down. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 22:15
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    I'm sure that the upper management of SE — the ones who paid $1.8e9, and are now trying to figure out how to recoup that investment — know full well that they are likely to bully away the people who used to contribute the most. It is also abundantly clear that they do not care. Commented Dec 15, 2025 at 18:01
26

Most traffic to Stack Overflow is to individual Q/A pages from a search engine. If you're not actively trying to answer questions, there's no reason to browse the Questions page; most users only go to that page to login and go to a specific page they actually want.

Now put yourself in the shoes of users who actually scroll through the Questions page - users who answers questions. There are very few answerable questions in there as it is (whatever happened to improving onboarding anyway), adding more noise in there (an ad every 5 questions, really?! even Reddit has fewer ads lol) would make that page downright unusable. Why would I have to tiptoe around a landmine to compete for points with an AI Assist?

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The “reduced ads” privilege does not apply [to the new native ads]

I still hope this is a joke1. If not, goodbye. I'd like to take my answers with me, thank you, please.

1: the rational part of my brain knows this is still the denial stage of grief over a death announcement.
Rest in peace, StackOverflow.

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    "I'd like to take my answers with me" Apart from the rest, you should be aware that this is unlikely to happen. But otherwise agreement. Maybe they thought that you like participating so much that a few "native" ads here and there don't bother you, but if so, they might very well miscalculate. Most people don't like ads. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 6:19
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    The advertising industry is doomed until they figure out how to give people ads they want to see, providing value for both the advertiser and the viewer. Commented Dec 15, 2025 at 16:22
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I don't like this. But there is a Native Ad category I would accept, which:

  • displays in the questions list;
  • doesn't get filtered out by the Reduced Ads privilege; and
  • the community might even appreciate.

That is: high-quality Q&A pairs about the products. Essentially, sponsored spam. Hear me out.

  • The questions get the (or , etc) tag, hardcoded to show at the beginning of the tags list.

    • This tag also appears in the <title> element, when you visit the question page.
  • The questions are posted on the site whose scope they best fit.

    • If they're off-topic for all sites, they go on a specially-created hidden site (like the edX sites). Users can gain reputation here as normal, but – due to the bizarre scope – everyone is pre-emptively question-banned. Questions can only be posted here through the special "submit an ad" flow.
  • While the ad's being paid for:

    • The questions may be inserted into question lists on any site, not just the site they're posted on.
    • The accepted answer is pinned to the top, regardless of the site-wide setting or sort order.
    • The "question is closed" banner is displayed at the bottom of the page, not the top. No closure indicator appears in the question's title.
    • The Q&A cannot be deleted, except by a moderator – but they can be flagged.
      • The "spam" flag category is replaced by "report this ad", and goes through your normal process.
      • "Rude or abusive" should go through your process, but also
      • All other flags can be handled by moderators.
    • Certain editorial standards are suspended, in favour of a stronger "respect authorial intent" policy. Edits to fix typos, formatting errors, and clumsy sentences are still allowed. (Advertisers might provide guidance in HTML comments, such as if a misspelling is deliberate.)

    Once the campaign ends, the questions lose their privileged status, and are treated as any other question. (Perhaps implemented by replacing with .) If the community really likes the Q&A pair, they may even remove the tag and preserve a version of it as ordinary Q&A.

  • Users can contribute new answers, which (aside from never being displayed above the accepted answer) are treated as normal answers: voting, flagging and deleting works as normal. These answers are shown as normal.

  • An advertisement's score is shown in the usual position.

    • I can imagine modifications, such as showing positive scores, but replacing negative scores with the neutral word "Ad".
    • You could provide a service for improving the Q&A pairs before they're posted.
      • The statistics you gather on ad performance would probably support the upsell.
      • You could even pay skilled users to do it! This would help if you're not sure you have the in-house expertise for that particular site, and would provide the advertiser with insight into product-market fit (by engaging a member of the target market who understands how other members of the target market think).
  • Advertisers can include Q&A written by other people in their campaigns. These are handled subtly:

    • An entry is created in the post timeline, to show that they're being used in an ad campaign.
    • When injected into a question list, they are displayed as though they have the tag.
    • When they're visited from the advertisement (as determined by the URL query string), they have the tag in their <title>, and at the beginning of their tag list, and any other visual features that distinguish them from ordinary questions, but do not receive any -related changes to functionality (e.g. answer sorting behaves normally).
    • When they are visited normally, they do not receive the treatment.
    • The advertisers do not have special control over the content of the Q&A. If they want to edit it to be spammier, they should expect those edits to be rejected.

For illustration, I'll provide some examples.

  • One of the cloud computing companies posts a asking "How do I do [complicated thing] with [cloud product]?", and answering with a detailed description of their latest feature. They ask it on Stack Overflow, but advertise it primarily on Server Fault. The question is a big hit, gaining 15 upvotes, and while the answer isn't great (general marketing copy instead of a specific solution), a user provides a separate answer with a clear and concise description of how to solve that problem. Following advice from a comment, the campaign manager changes the accepted answer: the original answer sits on a score of -1. Once the campaign ends, this serves as a useful resource for future users. The original answer is deleted seven months later, after a user flags it as "not an answer".
  • Some alcohol startup asks "What drink maximises programming productivity?" on Beer, Wine & Spirits, answers with their caffeinated alcohol nebuliser, and advertises it on all of the programming sites. Everyone finds it extremely annoying, but being able to downvote the Q&A pair, and upvote the answers saying "the Ballmer peak isn't real" and "nebulised caffeinated alcohol is a terrible idea", acts as a vent for that annoyance. There's an uptick in questions about various dangerous drinking practices people are engaging in with their friends: these receive good answers, and many reach the Hot Network Questions list. A few months later, the startup gets done by the FDA for Deceptive Drug Advertising (among other things), and folds, having funnelled a not-insignificant portion of its VC-funding into Stack Exchange's advertising department. The question is deleted immediately after the campaign ends.
  • A scammer posts a scam all over the cryptocurrency sites. It slips past Stack Exchange's review process (understandably, given how hard it is to distinguish cryptoscams from ordinary cryptocurrency behaviour), but gets caught by the community, and is swiftly deleted by the moderators as per policy, disabling the advertisements. Stack Exchange refunds the scammer's unspent advertising fees (or maybe holds them?), and reports them to the police.

As I see it, this is a win-win. Advertisers get all the eyeballs of a native ad, and perhaps even organic engagement with the subject of their product line (user-provided answers and follow-up questions). Readers get access to the ads that were actually useful, while only being exposed to the rubbish ones while the campaign's taking place. Stack Exchange gets money, and more "Q&A can be useful" mindshare among its advertising clients (which might help sell Stack Internal).

It is an additional burden on us contributors and curators (albeit one we want to take on), but not anywhere near as much of a burden as the current proposal would be. I do not want the risk of accidentally clicking on a phishing link when I think I'm interacting with the site's UI. It's vital that clicking on native ads keeps you on the site, at least until you click on links in the body of the advertisement.

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    Turning around (or better fulfilling?) the old help page's advice: "If the only reason you're here is to sell something or drive traffic to your site, then please avoid posting answers. Our advertising rates are quite reasonable; contact our ad sales team for details." Commented Dec 8, 2025 at 22:02
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    The Poe's Law is strong in this one. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 4:11
  • This kind of sponsored question and answer appears on Quora. I haven't looked into it much (because I don't click on them), but it seems like it at least initially keeps you on site. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 5:50
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    Did you mean: Community Promotion Ads Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 6:21
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    I only read the first third of your "sponsored spam" idea but there are already enough things in there which seem impractical or unrealistic (plus some that seem annoying to users) that I don't think I need to read the rest to know this will stay a pipe dream. Remember for a second that we had sponsored collectives on SO with the idea that companies create curated articles. That did not work out, at least in part because the companies couldn't be bothered to create decent content, or even much of any content at all - in which case I can't see your idea working at any nontrivial scale. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 13:52
  • @l4mpi And yet, it's strictly better than what's been proposed by Stack Exchange. I made sure that everything here can be accomplished relatively easily in the codebase, except the "Q&A written by other people" bit (which would require extra work, but isn't strictly central to the concept). If companies can't be bothered to create decent content, and don't want to pay SE staff to massage their marketing copy into half-decent on-topic Q&A, then the questions will live and die on a hidden site and not affect the rest of us. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 16:35
  • Meanwhile, we'll get all the moderation functionality that cfr demands automatically. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 17:19
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    @wizzwizz4 if it's better does not matter if it is not realistic. Of course you could implement the required software changes but that is irrelevant if no customer wants to buy those ads. Your plan requires the companies that want to advertise to buy into a new special untested ad format that's exclusive to SO and spend extra effort to prepare an ad copy. Why would companies accept that risk and spend that extra time and money instead of simply going elsewhere? I cannot see that happen at a relevant scale, especially not as most digital ad spending is concentrated on a few big ad networks. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 9:04
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    @l4mpi And I can't see SE's proposed version of Native Ads actually getting any conversions. Sure, companies will pay for it – at first. But when they see it's not working, how much is that going to damage the value of those ad slots? Your point is valid, but we do have a lower bound: there are companies already trying to do so. See the most recent metasmoke entry, for an example. This one, from a few hours ago, is an even better example: that's almost a good contribution! Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 9:17
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    @wizzwizz4 I can see them get some conversions, mainly by people clicking on it because they do not notice that it's an ad. But when has something being a bad idea ever stopped SE from pressing ahead at full speed? Collectives was DOA as well but took a while to actually die. Re your lower bound - I'm not sure spam companies such as these would buy an ad at any realistic rate even if offered, and if that's the kind of content you're envisioning then I'd rather have popup stripper ads with sound (not that any ad bypasses uMatrix+uBO). Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 9:42
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    Anyways, I think this is yet another case where SE has decided on a course and this is just a notification that it is going to happen - we can debate and envision whatever but it won't change a thing. The announcement references that "sales efforts" will start this month and given the christmas break that means they're probably already underway by now. So at this point all that's left to do for the community is to shake their heads and watch the incoming trainwreck, and hope that this crashes badly enough that it will be reversed sooner rather than later. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 9:46
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    @l4mpi That's the quality I imagine we'd get from companies that weren't interested in doing it properly. It's far below the quality I'd expect from AWS's sales department, or from anything where they paid Stack Exchange staff to copy-edit. But, yes, I'm also hoping they'll reverse course: I have no expectation they'll actually use this idea. (Maybe if I'd thought of it last month… but they shouldn't expect moderators to fix all the bad ideas in private, and it was not my responsibility to try.) Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 9:48
  • If ads are labeled with tags, then the idea to make the ads respect ignored tags won't work. People will just ignore the ad tag. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 16:09
  • @LyndonGingerich That can be special-cased, if required. Ignoring the ad tag would still hide the ads from organic search. Alternatively, SO could just allow the opt-out to work, preventing the ads from being injected into search results: they'd still be posts, so people would still see them (unless they also ignored the tag: most people wouldn't do both, at which point it's a game of finding the least annoying configuration to maximise the number of people who see the ads). Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 16:57
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Y'all at Stack Exchange have gone through great pains to highlight the elements that identify these ads as ads. In the screenshot and text of this announcement, you've pointed out (as far as I can count):

  • "Logo"
  • "Sponsored"
  • "Clear Ad Language"
  • "Partner is clearly designated"
  • "Partner logo is on the left to clearly indicate a sponsored post"

Of those five callouts, three were in giant boxes accompanied by giant arrows. The other two include some form of the word "clear". Obviously, you understand that ads should be immediately recognizable and distinct from regular content.

So why on Earth would you disguise them as Q&A?

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    Nothing screams "our ads are clearly ads and not to be confused with questions" like "let us have big arrows and boxed labels showing you where all the disambiguating elements are. in case you miss them". Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 4:29
  • Well if you ignore XX% of the screen content, it's a pretty decent site - may be a realistic scenario of the future. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 5:32
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    If you have to explain to us why something is obvious at a glance, then it's not obvious at a glance. Commented Dec 9, 2025 at 22:13
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I think it is very telling that you had to use big red arrows to point out the "disambiguating" elements in case we miss them.

Don't make ads look like questions. Reddit already tried that, and it's near-universally hated. I expect that people will hate disguised advertising even more here, as it excessively dilutes your signal-to-noise.

EDIT: That said, I'm not entirely against ads. I get it, you have to make money. My point is that you shouldn't do user-unfriendly things with them such as disguising them or (at the opposite extreme) making them impossible for users to ignore if they aren't interested (e.g. YouTube's 2"+ unskippable ad breaks full of snake oil, pornography, and pornographic snake oil.)

EDIT 2: As other people have mentioned, have you considered doing merchandising instead? I, as well many other users, would be very interested in SE-branded merch.

0
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Stack Exchange should run sidebar advertisements on the question pages instead of native ads in question lists and search results.

These kinds of people use Stack Exchange:

  1. Volunteers who are curating and answering questions. Based on meta posts over the past few months, they are already largely annoyed and looking for somewhere else to volunteer. They make Stack Exchange a lot of money, so we don't want to irritate them further. They probably mostly browse recent questions and questions with specific tags.
  2. People searching specific Stack Exchange websites. I don't know who would do this or why. They would use the search box.
  3. People arriving at Stack Exchange websites from search engine links. They view only question pages. They might well be at work and thus willing to suffer whatever is necessary to find answers to their questions.

As bolov points out, running native ads will raise friction for user types 1 and 2. You should be focusing on user type 3.

I know because I am myself type 3. I never use the site search boxes or view tag lists; I arrive at Stack Exchange questions from DuckDuckGo. I use an ad blocker; I had no idea that Stack Exchange websites ran ads until I saw this post. I use Stack Exchange websites mostly for work, so I will probably keep using it even if I see a few ads. But I'll never see an ad anywhere except on the question pages. Build your own advertising service so that my ad blocker won't hide them. I look at the sidebar sometimes; that's how I found out about this change.

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    As a note, we already do run sidebar ads (as well as horizontal "leaderboard" ads), at least on Stack Overflow and possibly some other network sites. Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 18:46
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    @V2Blast Weird. Maybe I content blocked them. Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 18:52
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    Me too, I probably had adblock on(ironically speaking, given this whole thread is about ads), thanks for adding this V2Blast! Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 18:53
18

I am asking myself this question: who is using SO and SE and how are the new native ads affecting the experience.

The way I see it there are three uses of the site:

  • seeking a solution to a specific problem you have
  • phishing for interesting problems for fun and engaging your brain
  • and contributing to the community by answering questions.

When you are searching for a specific problem you are not browsing the questions. You search (either internal search or external search) and/or ask a new question. You don't really interact with the main page and the questions page. So these native ads don't affect you, almost not at all. (until it's decide to put them between answers [sigh]).

But in the other two cases you actively browse for interesting questions. With the mindset and expectation of finding something interesting to either tease your brain, learn something new and or give back to the community by giving an answer.

This search of interesting questions already had two frictions:

  • filtering questions not relevant to you - fair enough and expected, no algorithm can know what exactly in my particular languages and tags I am familiar with or I find relevant. No big deal.

  • filtering bad questions. This is a big point of contention on this site for a while now. It's already generally a big deterrent to contributors the fact that we have to deal with a pretty big ratio of questions that waste everybody's time.

And now you introduce new friction:

  • filtering ads. When I am looking for interesting Q&As or when I am looking to help another dev now, I also have to navigate the land mines of native ads. I do not what to go to a site where someone is trying to sell me something. I just want to find new interesting Q&As and to help other programmers.

This to me shows that the heads driving this ship do not understand the ship they are sailing, nor the community. Stack Overflow community is one of the most tech inclined audiences on the web. I bet this community has one of the highest percent usage of ad blockers. We are more ads adverse than the average internet user. We have a more hostile attitude towards intrusive ads.

So these native ads only add friction for users that are looking to contribute to the site.

I understand that the site needs to become profitable. I want this site to be profitable and self sustained for years to come. But I think this is not the answer and actually hurts the site in ways it wouldn't hurt other sites. I do not know what the solution is to becoming profitable, sadly I don't even know if it's possible at this point in time and in this world context. But native ads that look like questions ain't it.

17

The number one problem with the site: less people are using it (something like a tenth of the traffic at peak).

Solution: let's make it harder to find useful content.

Do I really need to explain why that's a bad idea?

If you differentiate between human and (Artificial Intelligence) AI-generated content, you can sell that content (and meta data about the content) to AI model trainers. That seems a much better monetization plan than embedding ads in already noisy content. I.e. it is hard to find content now. You are making it harder.

Most people are already consuming the old content through AI. What's your plan if this drives away more traffic?

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    "something like a tenth of the traffic at peak" Citation needed. Commented Dec 10, 2025 at 17:49
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution, I've got analytics access on a half-dozen sites (not including Stack Overflow), and traffic is down quite a bit by all measures. The best-performing sites are sitting at about 25% of peak; the worst, at 5%. Commented Dec 11, 2025 at 2:30
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    Wait this is actually a good point, what's the backup plan? as mdfst13 says, if this doesn't work what's the backup? :o +1 cuz Reading this answer taught me something: always have a backup! Commented Dec 12, 2025 at 19:57

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