Nandan Nilekani on the role of courage in creating people centered tech

- At least several times, six to seven times when I thought, I'm doomed. - Yeah (laughs). - This is over, I better go home. - Welcome to "The Path". Today, my guest is Nandan Nilekani. Nandan's contributions to the tech world of earned him nicknames like, India's Bill Gates and the architect of India's digital transformation. He's the co-founder of one of the world's largest IT companies, Infosys, dedicated to keeping the systems of major corporations running smoothly. Yet, one of his biggest impacts was in the public sector when he created Aadhar, the world's largest biometric ID system that now serves over 1.3 billion people in India. But before all these achievements, Nandan was just an uncertain college grad, finding his way through what he calls moments of pure serendipity. Here's how Nandan Nilekani paved this path. I want to go way back. - Sure. - To the early days, to a young Nandan, and when you can't even remember it all, what you wanted to be when you grew up. - I didn't really have a specific goal in mind. One of my defining moments was when I was 12 and my father had a job, which was insecure, and therefore he wanted me to have a stable schooling. So, you know, in those days, I'm talking about sixties India or early seventies, you know, children, they would either go for engineering or medicine, and I didn't want to be a doctor, so it had to be engineering. And if I wanted to do engineering, it had to be in a good school. And IT Bombay was the best school. - I think I read a story that your father wasn't quite sure about you going to IT Bombay. - That's right. - What was that story about? - Well, you know, at 18 you are a rebel. (Ryan laughs) So my father sent me a telegram. We were telegrams in 1973, right. And said, join IT Madras Chemical Engineering, which is very precise. So I said, I'm not going to listen to you. So I said, I'll join electrical engineering IT Bombay. So I chose a different profession than a different college. It is, it's a small act of rebellion. - (laughs) I like it. Nanda graduated from IT Bombay in 1978 with a degree in electrical engineering. And while his classmates had their eyes set on grad school, he ended up getting sick on the day of the entrance exam and missed it. He wasn't quite sure of what to do next. That's when he heard about Patni Computer Systems, a small company that was using the most exciting new technology at the time, mini computers. - I came at, came to age at the time when computing was moving from mainframes to mini computers. And when I heard about this mini computer company, I said, wow, this sounds exciting. And I walked into an office, a small office of a gentleman called Narayana Murthy, who was the head of software for this firm. It was the most unusual job offer I had because he asked me some questions, some problem solving questions, and fortunately I managed to get them right. So he gave me a job. He was charismatic, he was ambitious, he set great goals. I would've done anything if you asked for, to jump off the cliff, I would've jumped off the cliff. So I think it was great experience working with him. And the other thing is, computer time was very precious because, you know, those days you, you couldn't get, so the fact that there was this mini computer with unlimited time, wow. That was like drinking from a hose. And then when Mr. Murthy said, I want to start a company, I said, yeah, I'm on. So here I was 25 and a half years old, joining my leader in setting up a new company. - [Ryan] In the eighties, starting an IT company in India was almost unheard of. There were no resources, no venture capital or telecom infrastructure to reliably offer services. So for Nandan, Don Mutti, and their five other colleagues to take this step was beyond risky. To make it happen, Murthy borrowed $250 from his wife and turned his one bedroom apartment into their office. Looking back, it's clear that Nandan had a vision for how tech could transform daily life, a vision that would shape his career, and eventually India's future. - You can think of us as India's original startup, because when we came of age, it was a time when business was dominated by large multinational firms. - Yeah. - You know, Unilever and you know, IBM and so on, or large Indian firms, or large public sector firms. - Yeah. - The notion of a bunch of middle class kids starting a company with no capital is completely alien at that time. - The idea of starting a company, that entrepreneurial idea, did that come naturally to you? - Not really, because I came from a background of folks who take a job, don't try all these stances of becoming an entrepreneur, you know, go to the US, whatever. And so there was, I think, a fair amount of apprehension in my family about this path I was taking. Murthy was such a charismatic leader that I didn't have any doubts about it. I'm an accidental entrepreneur. It's not that I set out my life to be an entrepreneur, but once I got into it, I realized this was my calling. - [Ryan] Infosys got its first big break when an arm of Germany's Bosch group hired them to run a data center in Bangalore. It was around this time that Nandan moved to the US to bring in American clients. Over six years he was living in places like Tampa, Chicago, Grand Rapids, and even Kenosha, Wisconsin. But times were tough. He was working long hours, sharing a two bedroom apartment with his wife and roommates, and was taking the bus to meetings since he couldn't afford a car. His efforts though eventually paid off landing big clients like GE by pitching cost saving outsourcing. In 1992, India introduced reforms that opened up the market to allow more private ownership. Nandan was in the forefront of navigating this ship, which helped the business explode. They went public in 1993 in India and eventually became the first Indian company to be listed on a US stock exchange. And then in 2002, Nandan became the CEO of Infosys. Under his leadership, the company's top line grew sixfold reaching $3 billion. I've always said, you can only learn to be a CEO by being the CEO. What was that like? - The one thing you learn as you grow a company is you can't do everything yourself. And the moment the day you realize that, you realize that making other people effective and motivated is a huge part of success. So I learned early on that if I really have to achieve something, it is by getting other people around me who are aligned with the goals that we have and are fully motivated and charged. - I love that. That's the key to leading right there. - That's right. - [Ryan] After five successful years as CEO Nandan stepped down and became the chairman at Infosys. In 2008, he published a book called "Imagining India". In the book, he described his big ideas for India's future. One of those was a digital ID system. A year later, he got an invitation from the Prime Minister to make that idea a reality. Nandan became the first chairman of the Unique Identification Authority of India, spearheading a government project that would impact the lives of every person in India. I have the amazing fortune of running a platform to create economic opportunity for every member of the global workforce by allowing people to establish their identity online. So, for me, as impressive as what you have done so far in your career, up to maybe 2009, the next thing is astonishing to me. So, as far as I understand it, the then Prime Minister called you about an idea to come and build something inside of the public sector. - It was a cabinet ranked job in the government of India to give every Indian a unique ID that's 1.3 billion people. - Unbelievable. - And it was just one page saying, give every Indian a unique id. (Ryan laughs) It didn't say how, none of that. So just, just do it. And it was a huge change for me because I went from being the top of a very successful company to employee number one of a startup. - Yeah. - And the startup in government is even more difficult than a startup in the private sector. And I went from having all the facilities to having a small office with a bunch of guys all huddle around it. And there at least several times, six to seven times when I thought, I'm doomed. - Yeah. - This is over, I better go home. Because, you know, when you're trying to do change at that scale, a lot of people who don't want that change to happen will, will create some roadblocks or the others. So I think I was able to navigate that. And frankly, it toughened me up as a leader. And I think what I learned is sometimes you have to step out of your comfort zone. You know, you shouldn't do it too much because then you can fall, but you should look at that. So I really stepped out of my comfort zone and because the the prize was too good. You know, imagine giving a billion people an idea. It's like amazing. And I also said, how do I make this work? So this goes back to team building. - [Ryan] Yeah. - I had a great team of bureaucrats and I assembled a great team of technologists, but they were from two different cultures, you know, silicon valley shorts and t-shirt to, you know, hierarchical suited guys. So how do you get these two together? And I came upon a simple technique, which I now use it all the time, is I set, set a very ambitious goal, publicly, so within a month of joining, I said, we will achieve 600 million unique IDs. By the time I stepped out and people thought I was crazy in government, you don't make commitments. Never supposed to make compliments. It sounded audacious and implausible. But this goal galvanized my team. And they all said, we have to make this happen. So, you know, once you set a ambitious goal, then everything else disappears. All the dis you know. So actually I was able to blend our team together using an ambitious goal, which is a good technique. - Yeah. - I would recommend for leaders. - [Ryan] The result was Aadhar the world's largest biometric identity program. This was a monumental task. Millions of people in India were lacking any form of ID at the time. Once Adhar came onto the scene, people across India were registering their fingerprints to quickly receive a digital id. Today, this system serves over 1.3 billion people and is used 80 million times a day to securely access banking and government services. It is now the backbone of India's digital infrastructure enabling a broad range of services, like instant money transfers, electronic signatures, and secure data sharing. And then in 2014, Nandan stepped down to run for Parliament, aiming to bring even bigger change and drive his vision of a digitally empowered India. - That was a bit of hubris on my part because I had a successful career at, created the world's largest idea. I thought I was, I could walk on water, anything, right? So let me stand for election and become a agent of change. And I lost the election. - [Ryan] Huh. - And that was actually a big blow to my ego that, you know, you think you know good at everything. And I think it took me some time to recover from that, because losing an election is like a collective rejection by a million people. - Yeah. - So, you know, you don't feel that good about it. And then I was looking for what to do, and my wife suggested that, why don't you work on children's education? You know, do something online like at, you know, edX kind of thing. I said, how big is the challenge? She said, 200 million children. I said, yeah, that's, that's a good one. Because by the time I'd got addicted to this large problem solving thing, and I had impact with the game, right? - Yeah. - As you can see, all these things did not happen with some well thought out plan. - Yeah. Nanda co-founded X Step with his wife to boost literacy for millions of children in India, using tech to create personalized learning experiences. Their latest project is focused on building data sets to make AI tools accessible across India's many languages. On top of that, Nandan also co-founded a venture fund called Fundamentum, backing tech startups like Pharm Easy, a healthcare platform, and Spinny, a used car marketplace. And he is done all this while returning to Infosys as a non-executive chairman, guiding its digital first strategy for global clients. So, looking back on what, just what is truly a remarkable career, if you were to, you know, give anyone on LinkedIn your best career advice, what would you tell them? - I think we are, you know, a complex world, uncertain world, this AI and all this stuff. So I feel the way is only to be curious, connected, and relevant. You know, I get up every morning wanting to learn new things and I keep my mind open. I treat every conversation as an opportunity to learn something or give something. So I think, I think this is a great time, but I think people have to remain curious, connected, remain relevant, learn that the future is about what only humans can do. Empathy, compassion, connecting the dots. - [Ryan] Here's my takeaway, Nandan Nilekani has this incredible talent for spotting the potential of technology before it's mainstream. But he doesn't just see it, he acts on it. His journey began with a small act of rebellion, choosing electrical engineering instead of following his dad's advice. And when mini computers caught his attention, he didn't know where they'd lead, but he took a chance and dove in to learn everything he could. That curiosity fueled every big step he took from co-founding Infosys to creating Aadhar and giving over a billion people. Digital identification. Nandan's real strength is his ability to put himself in the shoes of those he's helping. Designing tech that's practical and easy for people to use, even if it wasn't easy to make. His path reminds us, you don't need all the answers to get started, just some curiosity and courage. (upbeat music)