Debra Lee on dreaming big through challenges

- Being CEO of BET networks was bigger than anything I ever dreamt of. (groovy music) - Welcome to "The Path". I'm Ryan Roslansky, the CEO of LinkedIn. My guest today is the former CEO of BET networks, Debra Lee. Debra's an incredible glass ceiling breaker who's been elevating Black images and storytelling for decades. Her journey to becoming the first female CEO of Black Entertainment Television network is a story of back-to-back obstacles and controversy, but also many triumphs. Here's how Debra Lee paved her path. (groovy music continues) I want to go way, way back in time to a young Debra growing up as a kid, and maybe the first time you can at least remember what you maybe wanted to be when you grew up. - Hmm. A young Debra was part of a military family. We moved around a lot. We ended up in Greensboro, North Carolina, which I think is where my story began. And Greensboro is very segregated, but I saw Black doctors, Black lawyers. So, the fact that it was segregated did not give me the idea I couldn't be whatever I wanted to be. I think early on, I wanted to be a Supreme. I wanted to sing with Diana Ross. (Ryan laughs) Diana Ross and The Supremes were in a few role models I had. Whenever there's a Black person on TV, we used to call neighbors and say, "Hey, turn on the TV fast." So all of a sudden, music became a big part of my life. But when I was really thinking clearly, 'cause I couldn't sing, I wanted to be either a journalist or a fashion designer. - How did you think about school? - I loved school. I was convinced that I could be successful. I just didn't know how. - And so then was college a given, that that would happen next? - College was a given. - Yeah, got it. - My father wanted me to be a lawyer 'cause he always wanted to be a lawyer. But neither one of my parents finished college. My dad was intent that I would go to Ivy League, so I applied to Cornell, to Yale, 'cause they were just starting to accept women. And I applied to Brown 'cause they sent a group of students down to recruit us. And this was 1972. - Yeah. - So it was the first time Black students were really being recruited. And at Brown, you could create your own course of study. So, I focused on Chinese communist ideology because I just didn't think capitalism was the way, - The only way, yeah. - It's pretty funny now, looking at what I've done with my life. (Ryan laughs) - [Ryan] Debra was balancing school and work in order to afford her daily expenses. She worked at the school library and at a clothing store, which she loved because it reminded her of her passion for fashion. After getting her bachelor's, she wanted to pursue her dream of being a fashion designer, but she didn't have a portfolio and got rejected from art schools. So she ended up back on track to become a lawyer and landed a spot at Harvard Law School. But just weeks before she started school, she found out she was pregnant. She wrote about it in her book, "I am Debra Lee." - The pregnancy was like a tidal wave, threatening to drown and destroy everything I built in my life thus far. I knew how fragile my future was as a Black woman in America. One wrong turn could ruin everything I'd been working toward. One thing I never talked about before, I had an abortion right before I went to law school, something that I had the right to do. But, you know, it affected probably my first year of law school, having to deal with that and not having people to talk to about it. But, you know, I overcame that. I'm very candid about, you know, going through challenges and I wanted young people, especially young women, to know that you can still be successful in spite of challenges. - [Ryan] Debra struggled in law school. She was also one of the few Black women in her class, which she said added to the pressure. She told me that Harvard was not the safe space she expected. - I hated it. I made no bones about it. And I had decided if I was going to be a lawyer, I had to find some way to give back to the Black community some way. And I got my Master's of Public Policy, so I did one year law school- - Wow. - One year at Kennedy School. Two years of both. - Wow. - Yeah. - So, deep down, I mean, you knew you wanted to change the world. - Yeah, I decided public service was going to be the way. - After graduation, Debra could do practically anything she wants. With two Harvard degrees and a bachelor's from Brown, who wouldn't want to hire her? She was offered a position, one She was really excited for, at the SEC. A job where she could be working on public policy, which was one of her true passions. But she was also offered a federal clerkship. Everyone around her told her to take that job. It was a job people would kill for. She gave into the pressure and took the clerking job. During her time there, she failed her bar exam, but eventually passed it. She moved on to a corporate law firm, where she bounced around different sectors of regulatory law, from oil and gas to transportation, until she landed doing work in the media industry. And she loved it. Everything she had done up to this point is what those around her influenced her to do. Harvard Law School, clerkship, corporate law. But then everything changed when she started working with a new client, Black Entertainment Television. Had you heard of it before? - No. - Okay. - At that point, DC did not even have cable. - Ah. - But I was intrigued by what Bob Johnson was trying to build. He floated the idea of me coming over to start the legal department, to be the first general counsel. And I was shook. You know, it was, like, the dream job. - Yeah. - The partners would say, "Oh, that's not going to last." - (chuckles) Oh. - So, for the first in my life, I felt like I was getting off the fast tracks. - At BET at that point, it must have been, I mean, kind of like a startup, it was a small company. It's actually a really big career risk. What inside of you pushed you to make that decision to get off that track that you were on? - Right. From my early experiences, I really had a feeling of how important images are to people and how important BET already was, but would be to the Black community. - Yeah. - When I told my father I was leaving this beautiful corporate law firm with wood paneling and chandeliers, he's like, "Why would you do that?" And I said, "Dad, I'm just not having fun." And he looked me dead in the eye and said, "Debbie, if it was supposed to be fun, they wouldn't call it work." - Mm. - And that just broke my heart. - Yeah. - One, I didn't believe it. - Yeah. - Two, I knew how hard, you know, I had been working and would continue to work. And I just thought, you should be passionate about what you do. - So Debra followed her passion to her new job at BET as the first general counsel and the sole employee of the legal department. She was working tirelessly, signing off on every contract, overseeing bigger and bigger deals. Even leading BET's IPO in 1991, making it the first ever Black-owned company on the New York Stock Exchange. After a decade at BET, Debra's title remained general counsel, but she was doing way more than that. She oversaw the construction of BET's first studio and even ran BET's magazine publishing division. Debra was feeling overworked, overwhelmed, and underappreciated. And she started planning her exit from the company. But then in 1996, Bob Johnson appointed her as BET's Chief Operating Officer. And that COO role comes to you. Are you excited? Did you want it? - When Bob offered me the job, I'm like, "What's a COO? (laughs) And what do they do?" It was scary after I realized that he was going to step away 'cause he had to. He had to stop coming to senior team meetings for me to really be in control. And there are all these areas of the company I hadn't been involved, in, like, advertising, like, programming. You know, I knew all the businesses 'cause I'd done all those deals, but there were so many areas I didn't know. And another thing I didn't realize, by virtue of being named COO, I was immediately treated as heir apparent. - Yes. - I had no idea that that came with the package. And women were high-fiving me in the hallway saying, "Oh, we never thought a woman would do this." "Oh, we're so proud of you." The press was amazing. So, that was exciting but scary. - [Ryan] Mm-hmm. Debra spent 10 years as COO. She pushed for more original productions and expanded the company beyond TV. It had event productions, theme restaurants, a clothing line, and a financial services division. She also launched the network's website, created the BET Awards, led the acquisition by Viacom for $3 billion. But during that time, Debra ended up in a situation that would threaten everything she built. - It was a well-worn rumor that Bob had relationships outside his marriage. We didn't share our first kiss until six months after he appointed me COO. Do I want to do this? Do I want to ruin my marriage? Should I just quit my job? Bob was a great mentor for many years. And at a certain point, we started having a personal relationship. People knew about it at a certain point. And our relationship turned negative when we started disagreeing on work things and personal things. And then all of a sudden, I found that my job was tied to our relationship, which was very hard to overcome 'cause I loved my job. Not just my job, it was my whole career, and I didn't want to lose that. Luckily, Bob left at the end of his contract and it worked out, but it was very dark period in my life. - [Ryan] Debra would end up spending 13 years as CEO. Green-lighting original hit shows like "Being Mary Jane," "The Real Husbands of Hollywood," "In Contempt," "The Game," and "The New Edition Story." with Debra in charge, BET remained the number one network among Black viewers. But in 2013, she saw a change in the culture as Viacom leadership took on more control, and she decided to leave the company. In the end, Debra spent a whopping 32 years at BET. - You know, I've had some challenges in my life, and that's one of the reason I wanted to write the book. - [Ryan] Yeah. My son committed suicide in COVID. Turned out he was depressed and we just didn't know it until COVID came. He was a DJ. He worked at a record label. Very outgoing young man, and he was 31. That's the hardest thing I've ever been through. I started a internship program at the Grammy Recording Academy in his honor, and that gives me a lot of joy. If there is anything I wish I could have told my son, is that our difficulties don't define us. Success and self-doubt are not mutually exclusive. So, I guess bottom line, I walk out on the BET award stage once a year (chuckles) in a nice dress and give out a humanitarian award, and I wanted people to know it's not that easy. - [Ryan] Yeah. - I wanted people to know that you can have challenges and you can keep on going. - That's right. - You know, you don't give up and you don't give up your dreams. - Yeah. - And being CEO of BET networks was bigger than anything I ever dreamt of. - Yeah. - You know, and I want young people to dream big. - [Ryan] So here's my takeaway. Life can bring some deeply personal challenges. They can hurt and they can sting. But sometimes, the best way to get through it all is to do what Debra did and focus on your goal. For her, it was to make an impact on the Black community. Debra made mistakes and faced some very hurtful challenges along the way, but she doesn't pretend to be perfect. Her story shows us that you can have a messy life full of ups and downs, but you can still overcome them and find success. We all go through different levels of challenges, which end up shaping who we are, not only as professionals, but as people. So, when you're facing something hard, remember Debra's story. Stay focused, don't let it paralyze you, and never doubt your self worth. (upbeat jazz music)