Alex Pall leaning into your unique skills to find success

- We show up. That's it. I don't know if we're going to be good at this, but, like, we have to show up every single day. - Welcome to "The Path." I'm Ryan Roslansky, the CEO of LinkedIn. Today my guest is Alex Pall. Alex has spent the past decade captivating audiences through his music as one half of the Grammy-winning duo, The Chainsmokers. His path to becoming a multi-platinum recording artist was filled with pivots, from aspiring to be a basketball player and an art dealer, to his latest pivot, venture capital. Here's how Alex Pall paved his path. (upbeat music) We know you as a musician, an entrepreneur, a VC, but I want to go way back, and if you can remember at all what you wanted to be when you grew up. - Yeah, I wanted to be a basketball player. And I think you wanted to be a tennis player, right? - That's right. - Yeah. - Totally. - And so we both, none of that worked out. - Dang it. - You know, I think when you're, you know, young, you obviously gravitate to the things that you're really passionate about, but I think the reality of that becoming a career set in probably around 14, 15 years old. You know, my mom was more of a stay-at-home mom and took care of me and my sister, but my dad was an art dealer and, you know, sold fine art. So that was, like, something I was exposed to a lot as a kid, especially in, you know, the art was hanging around our house. That was the only thing I knew. You know, I had no other, I was never exposed to other careers or other things, and so naturally, for me, I was just, like, pivoted from basketball to, like, "Great, I'll be an art dealer." Like, I do love art. I enjoyed looking through the auction catalogs. Didn't really give much thought to, like, any other career paths, you know, at that point. - What about school? Like, were you into school. Was it an important part of your life growing up? - School was, like, social for me more than it was probably an education. And that's not to say, I was, like, probably a B-minus student until I was, like, in 10th grade. I was diagnosed with ADHD. There was this stigma around it, but I think I've learned, like, a weird hack, where I would start to compile lists of things that I needed to do. So it was really a function of being organized for me. And once I began to, like, create these lists, I went from, like, a B-minus student to straight A's. But I loved school and I did love learning. I just think the things that you're learning in school now, they're important but don't feel quite as relevant as you probably, you know, like, all those memes, like, "Oh, man, I use the Pythagorean theorem, you know, all the time in my daily life." - At a certain point, you know, you're growing up, some spark of creativity around music hits you. Like, when was that and maybe what was going on in your life at that time? - I'm 30, about to turn 39, so, like, this is, like, terrestrial radio days and, like, hard CDs and cassettes. So I would start, like, basically, recording songs I liked onto cassettes. And I was, like, you know, building mix tapes, and that became, like, I remember my mom's friend was like, "I'm throwing a disco party," like, "Is this something that you would like to come and, you know, play music for?" And I was like, "I don't really know a lot about disco, but if you, like, mark the tracks for me, I can figure it out and I'll just play songs." And so I did that, and she paid me, like, a couple hundred bucks, and I was like, "Whoa, this is cool and fun," and became a little entrepreneurial. But at no point during any of this was I like, "I'm going to translate this into a broader career." - With his new teen hustle, Alex DJ'd at birthday parties and high school dances. He even tried his hand at playing guitar in a band with friends. He loved all of it. At a certain point you decide that the path for you was to go to college. - Yeah, I mean, by the way, DJ-ing wasn't even on the radar now. - Got it. - Like, at this point, like, actually my dorm proctor was like, "You're not allowed to DJ on campus anymore." So, like, that was just done, you know? And it was, like, a hobby that I loved and thought I'd never come back to. I remember, like, vividly going to, like, a college counselor and them being, like, you know, looking at your grades and your SAT scores and being like, "So where do you want to go?" And I was like, "I don't know. I've never even been to any of these places. Like how could I possibly know where I want to go?" And, you know, she's, like, sitting there, being like, "Well, WashU, that's a triple reach, you know? Duke doesn't even have an art history program. Why do you want to go there?" I was like, "I like the basketball program." - Yeah. Yeah. - And I was like, I was like, "This is such a silly conversation." Like, I was just, like, "Let's just, like, get through this process," ultimately. - [Ryan] Alex landed on American University, pursuing a degree in art history, but he quickly found a path back to New York, enrolling in NYU's art history and music business programs. While in college, he interned at Christie's auction house and a few art galleries. Once he graduated, he landed a job as a receptionist at Metro Gallery, where he worked for five years. Alex was following in his father's footsteps, but it didn't feel right. - It felt like I was just following through on something that I had been saying I was going to do forever. And I think that, like, reflecting back, was, like, a really weird way to be leading your life. Promoting and throwing parties at night. And I'd fallen in love with electronic music, basically working nine to five at the gallery, Tuesday through Saturday, and then from 10:00 PM to 4:00 AM, I was, like, throwing parties or DJ-ing again. Part of it was, like, for fun and part of it was, like, I needed this additional capital to, like, live in New York. I was making, like, 30 grand a year. - Yeah. - And more importantly, it was just, like, it felt like work, you know what I mean? Like, when I would go to the gallery, it wasn't like I was waking up in the morning, being like, "Whoo!", you know, "Let's go, like, answer some phones and give some tours." It was like, I'm appreciative for this opportunity. I know this is, like, a great place to be, but, like, I couldn't be less inspired or motivated. That was, like, looking back, like, a red flag, where it was just, like, I'm just going through the motions instead of really following the things I'm passionate about. And, like, nowadays, like, you know, between venture and the fund and our music, I work, like, 16 hours every single day, but, like, none of it feels like work. Like, I love every second of every day. That was, like, the inherent switch that I think was missing, which is, like, you know, work shouldn't feel, like it should challenge you, but, like, generally speaking, like, I love, you know, putting myself in that position was the most important thing I ever did. - Alex quit his job at the gallery and charged ahead toward a career as a DJ in the New York City nightlife. His goal was to shake things up in a music scene that he felt had grown stale. That's when The Chainsmokers began taking shape, originally with another DJ who left the group. It wasn't until Alex's manager connected him with Drew Taggart, an up-and-coming music producer, that the group found super stardom, and the rest is history. When you start something like that, do you write a business plan, do you make a plan or does it just all come naturally and it starts to work or doesn't work? - The goal is to be the biggest electronic act in the world. And it was, like, what are the next things we can do to get us there? Like, I felt like we had a good chance. Like, I felt like, you know, Drew did make good music. Like, I had built a good brand locally in New York City. There wasn't a lot of, like, American DJs on the scene, producing music. And so it was, like, looking at the market opportunity. - But it's so interesting. I mean, I've never thought about this way, but it's, like, building a product, which is, you know, you know, early on LinkedIn or any of the companies you work with, you got to both have, like, product market fit and then most likely find some growth hack, like, in order to get it out there that, you know, is some unique thing or unique way to do it. Then at a certain point, you're like, "I need to evolve my product strategy, like, into something new and different to go after, like, a larger market." - You know, it is about the music, at the end of the day, and it is about, like, really honing in on that thing that is unique to you. Remixing, to us, was, like, a big part of that process. What if we, like, take all of these influences from our childhood, like, the authenticity that you get from, like, indie music, but, like, bring in the energy that you get from, like, these big European, you know, producers and sounds that we're hearing now?" And maybe there's something there that, like, feels inherently us. This was an opportunity for us to, like, refine our skills as producers, to attach our name to artists that were bigger than us. And each time that we did this successfully, maybe 50 fans were like, "I didn't know who the Chainsmokers were, but, like, I love Two Door Cinema Club, and they crushed this remix. Now I'm going to keep an eye on them a little bit more." And then I remember Drew, one day, was like, "We have to stop doing remixes." And I was like, "What are you talking," you know what I mean? I was like, "That's an insane thing to say. Everything we have is because we've made remix." And he was like, "We're never going to get to the next level unless we make original music. Like, that's just flat out. We're at a fine line now where we become, like, remix artists now, and we have to show people that there's, like, a real side to our music." And then we wrote "Selfie", which is the irony. (chuckles) - [Ryan] The song, "Selfie", went viral, and became a defining hit for the Chainsmokers. But the duo hated that song because it was originally written as a joke, yet it somehow topped the charts. They refused to make similar songs, so their label dropped them. Despite that, Alex and Drew doubled down on creating songs they actually cared about, and it paid off. Over the next decade, they would go platinum dozens of times, playing up to 300 shows a year, and even winning a Grammy. The Chainsmokers' world kept expanding. They launched a film and TV production company and became angel investors. A couple years later, they founded Mantis, a venture capital firm investing in finance, music, healthcare, education, and AI. - Drew and I have always seen ourselves as entrepreneurs above anything else. And so the opportunity to, like, work with people that approach their work and passion the same that we, the same way that we had with our music was, like, the coolest idea in the world. - The raw, like, how do you become an investor, how does it work, all that stuff, like, how did you learn that? - So when Drew and I, you know, had this crazy idea of the start of the fund, it was, like, the principle was simple. It was, like, we show up, that's it. I don't know if we're going to be good at this. I don't know if we're going to, what kind of value we're going to able to bring and how different and important it's going to be, but, like, we have to show up every single day for these companies and founders in a meaningful way. And if we do that, we're already done what 99% of, like, people from our world haven't done. I remember, like, getting on, you know, probably what was, like, one of the first legitimate conversations in regards to Mantis, and I mean, acronyms were flying left and right- - Yeah. (Ryan chuckles) - [Alex] that I just, like, did not have any grasp on. But I think, like, there was no, you know, ego also. Like, I knew I didn't know shit, and I was, like, prepared to learn and listen and comfortable asking the dumb questions. - Smart. - And I think I was surprised by how willing people were to help guide me through this process. You know, I think we are lucky being The Chainsmokers. I think we were able to speak to, like, obviously, like, a really high-quality type of person to get advice from, but, you know, everyone, you know, is, like, excited to tell you about their career. I think people love talking, like, look at me here, love talking about themselves and are, like, happy to share advice and learnings. And I think, you know, if you're a curious person and you really are passionate about something, those things really, they pick up fast. And, you know, I still feel like I have so, you know, much to learn. Now that we invest in, like, cybersecurity and infra and different areas like that, it's, like, what can I take from my world that is unusual in this world but actually really effective? And so we've been, it's been fun to figure out and, like, hack what are those things that we can bring from our world that's unique for us and super challenging. - Yeah. - But, like, you know, that's what, like, really gets me going is like, you know, I love what I get, you could see it in a founder's eyes. They're like, "This is cool. I am a fan. But, like, I'm doing this only because I am a fan." - Yeah. - You know? Or it's like, "Why am I here?" You know what I mean? Like, how do, Like, "I should be building this company, instead I'm talking to a DJ." And then, like, the conversation begins to unfold, then you talk about different things that you can help them with, and it becomes, oh, wow. Like, there's something of real substance here that I think can be valuable. - Do you think of yourself, like, as an investor these days? Like, is that your, you know, you spend the majority of your time, or how do you think about this part of your career right now? - So weird. I mean, it's definitely music's still the center of our solar system, and that's, like, you know, what's given life to everything. It's our sun. I don't want to, like, call myself a venture capitalist, and I don't necessarily call myself an investor. I mean, I spend a unhealthy amount of time doing it. - It's pretty remarkable to see what you've done. If someone early in their career was to ask you, like, "Hey, Alex, like, what is your best career advice?" Knowing what you've done and what you've built, what would you tell someone? - There's, like, so much time in your day. Really, like, think about that. Like, you can work that job that maybe not so inspiring that makes ends meet, but then, like, what are you doing in the other, you know- - On the side. - other time that you have during the day that you can be building something that is much more gratifying and fulfilling? And it's going to, there's going to come a time where you're going to have to make a hard decision about something in a risky way. And, for me, it was, like, leaving in the height of the financial crisis to go become a DJ full time. And thank God, you know, I took that chance. And I'm not going to say it's going to work out for everybody, and it's not, you know, you'll probably even do this a few different times in your career, but you have to put yourself in that position where you're all in and, you know, your back's against the wall. - [Ryan] So here's my takeaway. Similar to building a new product or business, there is a way to growth hack your career by focusing on how your unique skills can provide value to any job, no matter how different it might be from what you've done previously. Alex leveraged his connection to the art world to snag a full-time art gallery gig. As a DJ, he used his willingness to take risks and bet on a collaborator to make it big. And when starting Mantis with Drew, he used his perspective of knowing how to create a hit in the music business to help startups thrive. Like Alex, use your own blend of skills and experience to find success in any career path you choose. (upbeat music)