Timeline for answer to Closed 'mod recommendation' Skyrim question - Can this question be improved and then reopened? by agent86
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| Dec 5, 2012 at 21:38 | comment | added | agent86 Mod | @badp The problem's not nearly specific enough - the goal state is unclear. I'd probably ask leading comments like "Why do you want ponies in minecraft? What problem are you trying to solve?" Anticipating your next comment - I'm of the opinion that there are some game-rec-ish questions that can be worded and phrased to demand objective answers. They're less likely, to be sure, but I think you could phrase your "pony games" question in an objective fashion. | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 21:29 | comment | added | badp Mod | Not constructive on what ground? What about my specific example is bad subjective? | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 21:28 | comment | added | agent86 Mod | @badp, ah, apologies. I thought you were just giving a "generic" example of a mod rec - I didn't read the example closely enough. In your specific example, I'd probably want to close that particular question as NARQ or not constructive. It's possible to ask bad subjective questions on any topic. My apologies for the confusion. | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 21:24 | comment | added | badp Mod | You can't evaluate whether or not a game satisfies my desire of ponies but you can evaluate whether or not a mod satisfied my desire for ponies? | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 21:04 | comment | added | agent86 Mod | @badp, in this case, the problem can't be pivoted around like you can with a mod-rec. The problem becomes a shopping recommendation - a value judgement. I can't evaluate whether or not a game satisfies your desire for ponies. I can evaluate whether or not a mod solves the problem being posed in the question. | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 21:00 | comment | added | badp Mod | Okay, so now consider "I want a game with ponies in it." Three answers: "Applejack's Wedding Cake Creator Game" "Rarity's Wedding Dress Designer Game" and "My Little Pony Friendship Express Train™ Puzzle Adventure." How do you suppose one votes on that? What do you accept? | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 20:57 | comment | added | agent86 Mod | @badp, the same way you vote on any question's answers where there are multiple solutions to the same problem. You can evaluate them based on how completely and easily they solve the problem, or you could vote up all the ones that reach the desired outcome equally well. In my contrived "beat the boss" question, how would you vote? Multiple possible routes to the same goal does not make a question bad. See here. | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 20:55 | comment | added | badp Mod | @agent86 Okay, so consider "How can I add ponies in Minecraft." Three answers: "Install CraftPony." "Get Tekkit and the MyLittleCreeper mod." "Get CreePony." How do you suppose one votes on that? | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 20:53 | comment | added | agent86 Mod | @badp, I thought I covered that. game-rec's ask for a "value" choice (outcome: "What thing will I like the best?") and/or a list. A mod rec doesn't ask for either. They present a concrete problem and ask for a (singular) solution. (If it asks for a list, it should be closed, imho) | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 20:46 | comment | added | agent86 Mod | @badp Each individual answer to the question is a standalone solution to the problem presented. You don't need a list of all the mods that solve a particular problem to solve that problem - you need just one. Not all game-rec questions fall into this category (the others fall into shopping recommendations, which ask for subjective "value" judgements) | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 20:20 | comment | added | agent86 Mod | @MBraedley, for my contrived example, let's say someone says "I am fighting (boss) in (game), can anyone recommend a weapon to kill him?" Answers might be things like "go to this shop and buy this kind of weapon" or "Use this build, which makes you resistant to its damage" or "You need to level up more" "kite him around the room like this," etc. If we take out "weapon" and sub in "mod" or "strategy" or "build" how does that make the question bad? | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 20:08 | comment | added | agent86 Mod | @MBraedley, I feel recommending a mod is not as subjective as you're making it out to be. Once you remove "perceived value" from the equation, you've removed (most? all?) the subjectivity. Describing a problem in enough detail to pass the other "bad question" tests means that it can be objectively answered. Even if I hadn't played Minecraft, I could look at a mod and say "this does or does not solve the problem posed in the question" - that's objective. I can't look at a video card or game and say "this does provide the optimal value to this user." | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 18:14 | comment | added | MBraedley | @agent86: Let's do a straight (albeit contrived) comparison: "I need to play Crysis 3, what graphics card should I pick up?" and "I need to prevent damage from Creeper explosions, what mod should I use?" Both have implied problems (my computer isn't good enough to play Crysis 3, and Creepers are destroying my town), and both have subjective and localized answers. Luckily, the second question can be salvaged with creative editing so that even if the answers are subjective and localized, the question itself doesn't force them to be. | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 14:57 | comment | added | agent86 Mod | @MBraedley, the "what Z should I pick up?" is the request for recommendation. Recommendation is not a bad thing, though. When we deal with shopping or game rec's, the question becomes "What's a good value?" and "What would I like?" which are both bad subjective and/or too localized. Questions can ask for non-localized good- or non- subjective recommendations, though. When someone describes a particular problem and asks for a solution, we shouldn't judge it solely based on the type of solution they're asking for. | |
| Dec 5, 2012 at 11:54 | comment | added | MBraedley | A shopping recommendation isn't just "Should I buy X?", but also includes "I need to do Y, what Z should I pick up?" If we think in terms of graphics cards, it should be obvious why these 2 classes of questions were made off topic. Why, then, wouldn't it be the same case for game mods? | |
| Dec 4, 2012 at 13:52 | comment | added | badp Mod | How are these questions not "2. An itemized list of games satisfying one or more criteria"? How is the answer to a game-rec "the sum of all its answers?" How does removing the part where they say "I need a mod to do X" effectively change the question at hand? | |
| Nov 26, 2012 at 5:47 | vote | accept | galacticninja | ||
| Nov 25, 2012 at 16:25 | comment | added | Wipqozn Mod | +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 I'm so sick of people blindly saying that mod-rec are off-topic. No. The reason game-rec is gone is because there isn't a real problem to be solved, and it's just a list of peoples favourite games. Questions asking for a mod to solve a problem do not share any of the problems associated with game-rec. There are some mod-rec that share the same problems and should be closed, but it is not an absolute. | |
| Nov 25, 2012 at 13:59 | history | answered | agent86Mod | CC BY-SA 3.0 |